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19 Mar 2010

Can gay relationships last?

A common opinion is that gay relationships are less permanent than straight ones... but do or should we aspire towards having committed lifelong relationships? Openly gay Singaporean man Otto Fong shares his views in response to a recent article on Time.com.

“Couples, gay or straight, are not statistics and are not subject to what the majority of their groups do in studies and analyses. They are people who deserve the support and encouragement to succeed in their relationships and to have the best possible chance at a long and healthy life together.” - Chris Shultz

I wrote this in response to a Time.com article “Are Gay Relationships Different?” by John Cloud. He wrote the article after his first relationship of over seven years ended.

This article prompted some discussion amongst my Facebook friends about gay relationships. A common opinion is that gay relationships are less permanent, and that straight relationships are often successfully anchored by children. In that article published by Time.com, Cloud mused that if he was in a straight relationship, he would “almost certainly have had children” and his relationship would still be intact.

A Facebook friend commented that “death or heartbreak, all relationships come to an end eventually." So, he concluded that the “length of time as a yardstick for measuring the quality of a relationship would be a poor yardstick indeed.”

I found it understandable why some gay folks will see it from that perspective. My personal experience was that when my relationships failed, it would be hard not to have that nagging feeling that what some said about gays is correct: we can’t conduct personal relationships well. I went through that after several of my relationships ended in my twenties. I told myself that men aren’t meant to stay together – only women held the keys to a lasting relationship.

Now, I find that perspective deeply flawed and offensive. It is offensive to assume that many straight couples could only rely on their children to make their relationships work. It is offensive to childless straight couples. It is offensive to gay couples who never adopted and yet stayed together for decades.

It is also terribly unfair that one would compare relationships that ended by heartbreak, to relationships that ended with the death of a partner.

“What is the difference?” one might ask. Afterall, all relationships end one way or another!

The difference is simple: in one relationship, the partners made a vow. In the others, no vow was made. This is not to denigrate shorter relationships. Even short relationships teach us valuable lessons – and sometimes these lessons better inform us to cherish the next one. But, in short-term relationships, there is no commitment. Let’s stay together if we’re happy and it works for both of us. Once it stops working for either of us, let’s split. There’s nothing wrong with that.

In a committed relationship, a vow to love, respect and cherish each other is one that ends with “till death do us part”. It is a vow not to be taken lightly. It means that a partner vows to stay with another through thick and thin, riches and rags, in health and in sickness. My vow is to be with my partner when he contributes to our relationship. And my vow stands even when he is no longer able to contribute in certain ways (physical disability, aging complications). As long as he wants me around, and as long as I am capable of making decisions, I will be with him.

It’s interesting to note that in the Time.com article, the author used his own relationship as an example of a gay relationship that did not work out. Other than citing statistics that supported his point of view, he mentioned no other gay relationships – not even the ones that worked. It’s like someone who’d just climbed a hill and wrote about climbing Everest – without consulting a single Everest mountaineer. Personally, I have several Singaporean gay couples who are together for over a decade or two, and are still going strong. And I know of a couple from America, Neal and John, who’d been together for 30 years.

While it is true that many gay relationships do not work out, it is also true that gay relationships often lacked the community, familial and societal support that straight relationships take for granted.

Also, Chris Shultz, a friend of mine, noted, “It seems that same-sex relationships haven't enjoyed the social support and approval for long enough to draw meaningful comparisons between same-sex and different-sex relationships and their relative success rates.”

I am reminded of what is a committed relationship - and what makes it last - in, of all things, an animated cartoon. In the first 10 minutes of Pixar’s Oscar-winning animated feature Up, we were shown a compressed lifetime of a childless couple, Carl and Ellie.

When they found out that Ellie couldn’t conceive, the couple was devastated.

In every young gay man’s mind, we have visited that shocking, inescapable conclusion shortly after we dealt with being gay: since our future relationships lacked eggs for fertilisation, we would likely never have the chance to be fathers. While it might not have manifested itself as devastatingly as Ellie’s discovery at the doctor, it certainly was a blow to us nevertheless.

In the film, as Ellie sat sadly on the front yard’s swing, Carl approached her and made her a promise: they would embark on a trip to their childhood dreamland, South America.

Carl didn’t say: “Oops, sorry you couldn’t conceive. That means we can’t have children. Our relationship would never stand a chance without them! I’m afraid I’ll have to leave you.”

Carl said: “Ok, so we can’t have the adventure of having children. Let’s find a new adventure together!”

Some people argued that gay relationships should not work, because they do not satisfy the end goal of marriage: procreation. And some of us believed these people.

While the world needs a steady supply of children, it is also in dire need of many other things. What’s to stop a gay couple from finding an adventure they can both work happily towards? An adventure could be as simple as building a home together, creating a company together or even something as noble as starting and running a charity or orphanage.

Sure, some of us can achieve these singlehandedly. But one thing I learnt when I climbed the Grand Canyon in Colorado, US, alone and witnessed a breathtaking sunrise there two decades ago: I wanted that special someone to share that awesome sight with me. Always.

Otto Fong is a comic artist who'd created Sir Fong's Adventures In Science and an openly gay man since 2007.

Reader's Comments

1. 2010-03-19 23:55  
its not the final destination but the journey that matters. long or short, try to enjoy the ride ;)
2. 2010-03-20 00:27  
It's not just gay men.. even lesbians find themselves struggling with the issue of "Will our relationship last?". It is the stereotype that women may hold the key to an eternal relationship but when TWO women are in a relationship, it's much more complicated. I'd like to applaud the author for this part of the article:

"In a committed relationship, a vow to love, respect and cherish each other is one that ends with “till death do us part”. It is a vow not to be taken lightly. It means that a partner vows to stay with another through thick and thin, riches and rags, in health and in sickness. My vow is to be with my partner when he contributes to our relationship. And my vow stands even when he is no longer able to contribute in certain ways (physical disability, aging complications). As long as he wants me around, and as long as I am capable of making decisions, I will be with him."

I just wish I can utter this vow again.
3. 2010-03-20 00:56  
I believe its possible as long as one can find someone who not just have chemistry and the necessary but also the same beliefs that love can work out if both party works towards it.

Even though i am single now but i still believe that one day i would be happily attached and even if i do not have the luck to be attached i will still believe in love:)
4. 2010-03-20 01:21  
A relationship will last as long as both parties vowed to share life through thick and thin, the vows may not be on papers, but in their hearts.
Having said that, many gays (or at least those i met) are eager for just fun, few would venture into long term relationship. the very word 'commitment' will send them packing! sure, everyone is entitled to his way of life, hence i think its important to know what you really want... and if the other party is also crystal clear about what he wants. IF BOTH SHARE THE SAME GOAL/OBJECTIVE, then its 'A good start' to a relationship :)
Comment edited on 2010-03-23 01:47:56
5. 2010-03-20 01:23  
No matter straight or gay,we should build something for love.Love is not only for sex and fun. The question is "will you wiling to build your own home with your partner?''straight can do,gay also can. Gay couple also can buy property together. To me Love = trust. I will buy a house for my partner to make sure he has no worry about me. It's worth. Only he will acknowledge my successful and my achievement. Maybe somebody said I would flirt with other guys, of course I will.But before that I've make some agreement with him. Such as sex wisely and safely.Love is honest and sharing. This society has too much temptation,but we can just open-mind and be honest.
6. 2010-03-20 01:35  
I wish I CAN find the right one and be a cute couple as Carls.
But will it last?
Let's just hope for it. Or else everything will just be sad.
I know it will just come fine:).
7. 2010-03-20 01:51  
I think Otto's points are very good. However, I might speculate that the relationship which Cloud was in and ended must have made a very big impact on him. In that sense, I will not completely blame him for holding that point of view. Personally, I might be slow to really put him down because of these reasons.

Notwithstanding that, he should not have represented his perspective as if they were a truism. As Otto rightly high-lighted, it does not explain the "anomalies" that exist i.e. straight childless couples who remain married, gay couples who remain together. Like him, I get irritated when people over-generalise.

Personally, I believe when it comes to relationships, it all boils down to choice. Whether a person chooses to remain single or requires companionship is, I suspect, a matter of personality and life experiences. Some people may not be as comfortable committing whereas others take to it better.

I think the important thing though is to at least experience being in a relationship to decide whether that is something for you. I subscribe to being open to experience and am generally suspicious of artificial constructs which we are bombarded with by the media on a daily basis e.g. artificial constructions of what love might mean.
8. 2010-03-20 02:32  
I don't think it is the right thing to say that gay relationship won't last much than straight, because they are both men or both women. It may be an article with 'polite' words and written by a gay man, but it's still homophobia, and it is wrong for John Cloud to say it.

However, I do agree that gay relationships, no matter how much the family and friends approve, lacks the support the society usually has for straight couples. Society support for the longevity and romance for couples seems to lack in a gay relationship, because the large mass thinks that they should 'leave the gays alone', even though they approve of the relationship.

But I won't put the blame too much on external factors. The mindset of the couples involved are part of the blame too.

Do gay couples think that their relationship is equal to that of a straight? I don't think so. They may accept their homosexuality, but I think many still unconsciously think that gay relationship are not equal as heterosexuals. I've seen too many gay couples trying out new recipes for a relationships, and still failed miserably. Many would argue how because they are gay, different than the norm, then the nature should be different as well.

I really hope that in the future, there wouldn't be any word with label 'gay' in it, such as 'gay relationship', 'gay marriage', or even 'gay sex', or whatever. Being with the same sex is equal as being with the opposite sex.

Separation is not equal.
9. 2010-03-20 02:33  
Thank you for the article!! It makes me to believe in the true relationship even more! Higher motivation to not simply go to relationship :)
10. 2010-03-20 02:56  
My partner and I are still going strong after 8 years, long distance (me peninsula, him borneo). We met in our early 20s, both of us were first timers never had boyfriends before, but we clicked, we vowed the relationship open and we're still together after all these years. And we don't like children, so procreation is irrelevant to us. We're very thankful we last this long, and sometimes we wonder if we were meant to be together, and it seems like it. Another two years and we're a decade. :)
11. 2010-03-20 03:17  
I don't care about those cynics broken by the superficiality.
HELL YES TO FOREVER GAY LOVE!!! =)
12. 2010-03-20 04:30  
It is what we want isn't it? Hope its true for me as well.
13. 2010-03-20 04:41  
wow..this is something i think about actually despite being so young :/
14. 2010-03-20 05:30  
"to arrive there is your ultimate goal.
But do not hurry the voyage at all.
It is better to let it last for long years;
and even to anchor at the isle when you are old,
rich with all that you have gained on the way..."
15. 2010-03-20 05:46  
I don't quite agree on the vow part. In my opinion it's just fluff. Any couple can wax lyrical vows about staying together. Look at Britney Spears! I'm pretty sure her first marriage came with a set of vows!

Ultimately what does it mean to last?

Does it mean that it is an occasion of celebration when a gay couple who's been together for more than 10-20-30 years, even though they are actually in an open relationship?

Does that mean that the couple who got divorced are less deserving?

Nothing lasts. Marriages, vows and legal contract not withstanding, can crack and result in divorce. Thousands of couples with kids find themselves separating and later divorcing. Clearly children is not the answer to a "lasting" relationship.

A friend once told me... if a couple is staying together only because of the children, then what kind of relationship or love they are having? Obviously none for each other. In such cases, won't it be better to just leave for a better pasture instead of living in misery every day for the rest of your lives?

I also don't agree with the "the world needs a steady supply of children."

Uh newsflash... what the planet does not need is more human beings! We are already overcrowding many parts of the world, furiously destroying every aspect of the planet in our incessant appetite for power and the never satiable need for more.

I may be clouded in this but it almost seems to me that the writer is telling me that while he can be happy, he can never be truly whole without a man to validate his existence.

That to me is the saddest piece of crock ever. I resent the notion that everyone human being must get married or have a boyfriend/girlfriend so that he would be complete and that without it they will never ever be really happy.

Why can't we be really happy being single? Is getting a relationship a lifelong ambition for gays?
16. 2010-03-20 06:48  
Relationship=Learning=Enjoying=Life=Happy=Live=Cherish=Thankful=Determine=Experience
It is a cycle that all Life must experience so that we all won't regret....
17. 2010-03-20 07:44  
They usually don't last. Overwhelming obstacles presented by reality and society can really wear out the affection betwee most couples. Gradually, the love frazzles out and the couple go separate ways. We've all seen that thousands of times happening to gay people around us. Who doesn't wish to have the ways and determination to sustain a gay love? The reality is that, most of us don't have them.
18. 2010-03-20 08:00  
Gay relationships do last! We know from our own experience. But relationships are like a garden: they need constant nurturing to make them grow.

Otto states "While it is true that many gay relationships do not work out, it is also true that gay relationships often lacked the community, familial and societal support that straight relationships take for granted." We would suggest (also from one of our previous experiences in the str8 world) that the "support" he mentions could be replaced by "pressure": "community, familial and societal pressure to keep the (str8) relationship alive; Just look at the example of Charles and Diana for instance. Of course, this "pressure" may work in the opposite way with a gay relationship: family, community and societal pressure to become "normal" and get a girlfriend, get married, have kids and lead a "happy life".

He also infers that children bind couples together but so do financial commitments and joint assets. Most str8 couples do not have the advantages of pre-nuptial contracts so partners stand to lose a heck of a lot of money if they split. Yet more "pressure" to stay together.

A final note. Relationships don't "just work". We used the garden metaphor above and, in continuation, you wouldn't invest years of time and money growing a garden without a little knowledge. Read about relationships, research them and ask others for help. This is a good starter: http://www.everydayhealth.com/family-health/understanding/ingredients-of-a-good-marriage.aspx?xid=nl_EverydayHealthEmotionalHealth_20100224



19. 2010-03-20 08:19  
as if straight relationships last???
20. 2010-03-20 08:40  
For those who are together for long, I congratulate you all coz only you two knows inside your hearts what it takes to keep you two together. There's always hope of a lasting, endearing, meaningful relationship.

But are we talking about monogamous or open relationship? To some, being together can be open as well, whatever works for them for the physical thrill outside the relationship can bring. Is the relationship just about the duration of time? What's the quality of relationship? Is it 30 years of draggy-going-nowhere-I-wish-someone-better-instead-of-him/her relationship? or a shorter 5 years of solid relationship and yet still maintains that solid friendship? Couple should constantly look at themselves individually and as a couple to bring about a better life together.

There's no right formula to a lasting meaningful relationship. Love, Trust, hope, endearing, faithfulness, etc etc...the list goes on, they are there for those who practices it and stand the test of time. We can say all we want, but doing it is what it takes. There are so many factors affecting a relationship, but its doing what's neccessary to overcome those factors is what building a life together is all about.

I am single, I have been through relationships in the past. I don't count the days in the relationship, I make my days count as an individual and as a couple in the relationship. At the end of the day, it is not just being together, but HAPPILY together and better still, till death-do-us-part. :)
21. 2010-03-20 09:01  
I wonder how many of the respondents have been in a long term relationship. I have been in two. The first for 7 years, the present for over 19, so I do know something about them, at least as they work for me.

First, there is the matter of 'forever', 'til death do us part', and all that nonsense. If a relationship turns bad why would you want to prolong it? I have never 'vowed' anything to my partner. I have known several people who did, however, and it is clear from the results that vows have nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Second, relationships change with time. Often people grow apart, even amicably. I believe it is true about children holding straight couples together and I believe it is right. But how many times have you seen straight relationships fall apart when the children are gone, or elderly couples who despise each other?

Third, a relationship is work. It is not always fun work. There are a hundred things that can tear it apart other than infidelity. And with respect to fidelity, if one partner is going to throw away a perfectly good relationship because the other had a roll in the hay (especially if he was discreet about it), then the relationship is doomed. All men are sluts or wannabe sluts.

My advise: go into relationships, live with the person you want, don't hold your partner to a high expectation, be forgiving, and when it goes bad, really bad, move on to the next one. It is better, in my mind, to have a series of good relationships than one lifelong fight. One last thing; you are only young and sexy for a relatively short time. Don't waste your youth waiting for Mr. Right. In fact, there is no Mr. Right, but there might be a Mr. Pretty Good. You will find him not when you are looking, but when you are not.

Good luck everyone, and try to have some fun.
22. 2010-03-20 10:43  
Thank you Otto. This is a meaningful, encouraging and heart-warming sharing. Great work!
23. 2010-03-20 10:49  
I used to know of an older couple. Both were in their late 50s. One of them had a previous marriage to a woman and had children with her. He then later split up with them and this gay couple has since then been together for more than 20 odd years.

However, here's the twist. They no longer sleep in the same bedroom and havent had sex for quite a few years now. Instead, they have younger men, coming over to their place and have sex with either or both of them, but never at the same time.

They told me they still love me each other, but they just dont have sex together. I do not want to judge this relationship, but it does come across to me that they both knew that they are no longer young and needed to take care of each other in their old age. They have shared investments and properties and it will be a lot of hassles to go their separate ways.

Perhaps someone can tell me then, is this a true long lasting relationship or that they are just both smart enough to know the real consequences of not having each other in their retirement age.

All I can say that I am glad that I am still at a point in my life that I can do the right thing for myself and set myself up, both financially & in health, say if I will to go old by myself.
24. 2010-03-20 10:56  
When I'm in a relationship, I want to be out. When I'm out, I want to be in again...

Something must be wrong with me then!
Comment #25 was deleted by its author on 2010-03-20 11:53
26. 2010-03-20 11:13  
Surely any relationship lasts just so long as the parties to that relationship want it to last. However making a relationship last requires a lot of hard work & sacrifice. The parties must be willing to invest.

Another important aspect is the social climate surrounding the relationship - good friends, supporting families and something that gives both parties a centre of interest out side the relationship - children yes, but not at all necessarily.

In response to Capitan - nature has programmed the male to spread his seed call him a slut if you like

27. 2010-03-20 11:19  
silly question, silly answer... this isn't a really interesting topic at all.
28. 2010-03-20 11:29  
There is no real difference between a gay relationship and a heterosexual one. There is a difference of quality insofar as gay relationships are unaided by all the social constructs, practical issues (children) and society's blessings that facilitate and normalise heterosexual relationships. Poofs need to like each other, be prepared to give something to the other and in the end have practical and selfish reasons to stay together. Some gay men are extraordinarily selfish and this does not assist in having a relationship. I am lucky in having as my partner very generous, tolerant and active human being. We seem to be likely to stay together but I try and make a conscious effort to make sure my partner gets what he wants (every now and then). It is not rocket science.
29. 2010-03-20 11:36  
No doubt that heterosexual relationships might not last even with procreation. Look at the divorce rates - and most are with children. And then there is the problem of who is going to take the custody of the kids. It might be a satisfaction at some point but the ending is much more painful than we think.
30. 2010-03-20 11:45  
just because straight relationships have children, doesn’t make them successful.

Relationships, either gay or straight, fail for the same reason. Too many go into a relationship for the wrong reasons. Real love or true companionship, things in common, seldom feature as reasons for a relationship, and THIS is why they fail. Never having been in a straight relationship, I can’t comment too much on it, but as for gay relationships, unfortunately more often than not, these are formed on the basis of physical attraction.

[Qhote: “a vow not to be taken lightly. It means that a partner vows to stay with another through thick and thin, riches and rags, in health and in sickness. My vow is to be with my partner when he contributes to our relationship. And my vow stands even when he is no longer able to contribute in certain ways (physical disability, aging complications). As long as he wants me around, and as long as I am capable of making decisions, I will be with him.” Unquote]

We know that nothing is forever, so to make a vow to anyone, be they gay or straight, is rather presumptuous. The problem lies in HOW relationships end. And therein lies the rub. More often than not, relationships end through infidelity, lack of interest and focus, etc. The list goes on and on. All reasons loosing sight of why one is in a relationship in the first place.

It takes hard work, EVERY DAY, and sadly, not enough people have realized this. There is no difference between gay and straight relationships, except in the bedroom. Someone said that two women in a relationship is more complicated? Why? As human beings we tend to make life more complicated than it is. We have to stop doing that, because in actual fact, life is very simple! Unfortunately as human beings, with money being the God of the 21st century. truth, honesty and integrity have taken a backseat. If we use common sense, most complications fall by the wayside. But we live in a world devoid of common sense, hence, our arguments, fights, skirmishes, and eventually wars.

SIMPLIFY !

31. 2010-03-20 11:47  
Nevertheless, I feel that homosexual relationships shouldn't have children. Ask yourself, do you want to have two fathers/mothers?
32. 2010-03-20 11:49  
Like many of the other comments, I feel an article like this is valuable since it makes us evaluate our thinking and attacks sterotypes. Many times as gay men we accidentally fall into sterotypical thinking and we need to review these thoughts.

St8t marriage is not the "answer", if it was how come the divorce rate is so high in countries like Australia?

"Being together" or a "relationship" is something very personal. Zorke cites an example which is very different to what many would see as a "good relationship"... but it sure works for those guys!!! We need to stay out of judgement territory, for example, if "open" is agreed and successful for two people, then it is a "good" relationship for them.

Having come off a 6 year gay relationship and a 20 year st8t marriage, I can confidently say in my opinon what makes for a long term relationship is both partners being prepared to "commit" and "put in", both prepared to talk honestly about the good and rough aspects and a genuine desire by both to "make it work". If those things do not come together, or if they do but the final relationship is not what either (or both) want, then it is time to leave. There is no point staying in a poisoned relationship or one where it is a one way street, but I also think there is no point to dropping the towel at the first sight of a bit of hard work.

I like the garden analogy, very apt guys!!
Comment #33 was deleted by its author on 2010-03-20 11:56
34. 2010-03-20 12:05  
There are many decent guys around just waiting for some one decent to appear we aren’t all scummy queers, often hot available suitable men are over the other side of the damn globe dreaming the same, frustrating I know, but of course we are wanting some thing closer to home and accessibility is important in nurturing a LTR, if we make better choices in men we will have better results so getting to know some one first to know their character is important, I really recommend the Barbara De Angelis book “Are You The Right One For Me” I believe that the ideas are as relevant for homosexual men as for woman, it’s not the length of relationships it’s the quality, we are all on borrowed time our partners may go before us I think exclusive polygamous relationships are a workable option also, at any rate we always need to be strong and independent with in our selves, that does not fly in the face of interdependency as a species all life on this planet is, it’s natural and healthy for people to seek companionship in all it’s forms, as my (other) good mother used to say “we live in a world of wonderful possibilities” so if we are open to those possibilities being available for us and if you subscribe to the concept of ‘law of attraction’ then we may well attract what our hearts truly desire, belief is the key word not living in hope people mistakenly treat hope as some great virtue, not so as hope leaves room for doubt and doubt is the great un-doer, it’s better than living in negativity but not as strong a pulling power as belief, to succeed one must be unshakeable in ones belief things can and will happen and I’m not talking about believing ones own propaganda Hitler believed his propaganda and look what happened to him, you need to keep it real and with spiritual foundation. I think it was Stuart Wilde who said ‘people come together for growth not necessarily for life” if they do leave for what ever reasons we must stay afloat and be able to move on to the next adventure along life’s journey, we are all here on borrowed time nothing in physical life is permanent enjoying the now with self respect is so important and of course longevity is to be considered if your onto a winner. I believe every one is a potential soul mate possibility we don’t just get one chance, that’s negative nonsense not founded on life’s obvious proof to the contrary, if you’re a relationship orientated person take heart there are many just like you dreaming of the day they meet you.
Comment #35 was deleted by its author on 2010-03-20 13:10
36. 2010-03-20 12:22  
lovely article, couldn't agree with so many of your points more :)
Comment #37 was deleted by its author on 2010-03-20 13:28
38. 2010-03-20 12:40  
never been in a "real" relationship before,so I wouldn't know what is known by others,which is love. not known to me love is...perhaps, I've seen many couples who stick to each other no matter what for many years.a men i know and admire, who is a HIV-positive, still has his partner standing up for him for as nearly as 20++ years.he was HIV- previously,then got infected.this is the love one can look forward to.he said to me though,have faith in love...

and so search and wait i will for the one whom will love me regardless of my appearance, wealth, and health.
39. 2010-03-20 13:10  
It takes 2 hands to clap. A relationship - straight or otherwise, is only as strong/lasting as the commitment of the weaker partner.

Choose a partner with strong values.
40. 2010-03-20 13:34  
Telling someone that we will love him/her forever is like promising that we will never have cancer.

Nevertheless we keep doing it in earnest because :

1. we are asleep (and dreaming) most of the time, including when we are not sleeping,

2. we believe that we are one person when in fact we are many. The one who promises is but one in a crowd, and yet he constantly makes promises not just in his name but for the whole crowd.

Crowds are unpredictable and mostly uncontrollable. So are human beings, no matter how much they love to think of themselves as rational, reliable and consistent. Our beloved and highly (over)priced "values" such as integrity, faithfulness, selflessness, are no more real than love in Bollywood movies.
41. 2010-03-20 14:09  
While I'm no expert on long term relationships, I think it all depends on how much the two guys have in common. Also, if they have a genuine friendship going between them, then their relationship will grow with time. Shared experiences as friends tend to strengthen bonds.

However, if either or both of them had felt only physical (or financial) attraction, without friendship at an emotional level, then I'd say there's not much to hold them together. Sex or money as the only attraction just cannot endure the test of time, since these things can disappear or be offered by others too.

All the rationalising that you do, about how you're "supposed to be together" because "that's the right thing to do", and so on, may only result in a very unhappy relationship. You must WANT to be together emotionally, without requiring logical justifications.
42. 2010-03-20 14:32  
i think if u want to make ur relationship last long , 1st ) u need to do is love without jealousy 2nd ) believe in each other 3rd ) understanding ...
i never have relationship b4 so i dont know much about how long its last , but this 3 steps , im gona do with my future partner ! :)
43. 2010-03-20 15:03  
For me...trust is the key. No matter you're homosexual or heterosexual. ^_^
44. 2010-03-20 15:10  
the article began with a false premise that straight relationships survive because of children, and then went on to prove that premise to be wrong (with a help of a cartoon!). fridae 'journalism' is still testing how low it can fall.
45. 2010-03-20 15:45  
YES YES YES, gay relationships can last. (Now if only my ex shared this sentiment. Oh well.)

We gave it a good 8 years. 7 of it was the happiest time of my life. The last one really sucked but I miss him terribly.

What was the question again?
46. 2010-03-20 18:10  
feel really inspired
47. 2010-03-20 18:58  
Wow that facinating for all the commends. All people have a different spec of the view. Well Its all about trust wth each other and believe what they want in their lives.

No matter how things workout, i guess guys or gals should know themselves better. So if have the faith to be together, everything will have come.

Cheers
48. 2010-03-20 19:50  
Life is too short. We must enjoy and cherish every moments in our lives. I do believe that, it just depends on the two partners. If they have trust to each other, I presume that they will harvest a good relationship. If you will trust to that person, you will gain respect. If you are respected by your partner, definitely, you will gain faithfulness.

I'm very much theoretical. Sad to say, Ive never tried to have that kind of relationship. Its very much difficult for me to open this identity to the public and even to my family and friends.

I do hope, I can find the right partner that could love me unconditionally despite for what I am and for who I am.

Without a doubt, I am just being true to my self!

49. 2010-03-20 20:06  
I've been wondering for a long time whether gay relationships last or not for a long time, I've been thinking what "a relationship" means, does living together mean that you are in a relationship (which many gay couples do), oh, how about love, what does love mean, a boyfriend mean, it confuses me a lot. I think when you see someone and you feel sparks and your heart beats faster, then you are in love with him; every time you see him, you feel happy, then you are in love with him; when you don't see him for a long time, you miss him, you dream of him in your dreams, it's love. I think we all want this kind of feeling, we want a man like this in our hearts, well, never been in a relationship, so still feel confused, hope someday I could understand this article more...
50. 2010-03-20 21:40  
I'd have to disagree with a lot of people who dismiss the importance of legally recognised relationships. A recent study (just last month actually) found this:

"Analyses revealed that participants in committed or legally recognized relationships reported less psychological distress (i.e., internalized homophobia, depressive symptoms, and stress) and more well-being (i.e., the presence of meaning in life) than single participants. Significant group differences and multivariate analyses indicated that participants in a legally recognized relationship reported less internalized homophobia, fewer depressive symptoms, lower levels of stress, and more meaning in their lives than those in committed relationships, even after controlling for other factors."
(Riggle, Ellen D. B; Rostosky, Sharon S; Horne, Sharon G. Psychological distress, well-being, and legal recognition in same-sex couple relationships. Journal of Family Psychology. Vol.24(1), Feb 2010, pp. 82-86. )

I also remember a study which found that married couples felt pride when their spouses experience success, while unmarried couples were more likely to feel jealous and resentful. It can be seen then that there may be at least one less source of tension within marriages.

And just because you feel differently and you cite your own experiences to refute others, remember that we do have cognitive biases. We look to confirm our beliefs and end up ignoring everything else.

But I do agree that Cloud was a bit dodgy there... How could he say this:

"Our relationship had begun to suffer the inanition of many marriages at seven years. (The seven-year itch isn't a myth; the U.S. Census Bureau says the median duration of first marriages that end in divorce is 7.9 years.)"

Then go on to argue that homosexual relationships don't last as long as heterosexual ones?
51. 2010-03-20 21:42  
Oh right, I guess what I quoted also suggests the importance of marriage vows of commitment to psychological well-being.
52. 2010-03-20 22:15  
This topic has touched on a subject that has been of major interest to me over several years, and as a gay radio program presenter of some 16 years (on Melbourne's gay FM radio station) I have interviewed many people about their same-sex relationships, who come from countries all over the world.

Firstly, in my own case and to "lay my cards on the table", my (Singaporean) partner and I have been together for 15 years now, and still going strong... if not stronger than when we first met, as I think we have both matured a lot in that time, and we have both also learned to deal with the occasional conflicts and disagreements that sometimes arise in ALL relationships... straight OR gay. It's the way we deal with those conflicts that determines how, and whether, the relationship will last, and we had discussed that very topic many years ago, so we both know how to deal with each other on the (very) rare occasion we might have a disagreement on something.

Unlike a straight marriage, gay relationships have two factors missing that help keep straight couples together, for better or worse. The first is a legal marriage contract which makes it more difficult and/or costly to separate. (Although in places like Australia where gay relationships ARE recognised... that is not so relevent now, as it can be sometimes costly in terms of property settlement etc. if a gay couple does ultimately separate.) The other factor is children, and Otto alluded to this as well. Even if a straight relationship is "on the rocks", the parents will try to keep the relationship going solely because of the children... or at least until they have grown up and moved on.

Gay couples (in general...) can separate so much more easily without the same considerations that straight couples have to contend wth. If they did not have the legal marriage contract, and children, then I think you would find that straight couples would be having much shorter relationships as well.

And I say that as a gay man who "came out" 19 years ago, but who was married for 16 years before that, and who has two adult children.
53. 2010-03-20 22:26  
yeah, this article is right, we have to believe that the relationship can work out without child or similar to straight couples relationship

i like this article, the movie just mention it, it is true love....!
54. 2010-03-20 22:43  
The curse of true love will never did run smooth...
A Midsummer Nights Dream...
55. 2010-03-21 00:16  
having been in 2 relationships before ... ( 6 and 3 years respectively ) ... i no longer yearn for such committed relationship ... it is something i cans set aside, while putting much effort on work, family, friends and such ... ( have it ? fine, dont have it ? fine too! )

that said, it does feel empty sometimes ... ... ... for that sheer shared intimacy that a deep and devoted relationship provides ... well ... till then, i am staying well and happy ... and content

;) good nite
56. 2010-03-21 00:36  
is relationship = companionship?

I guess most gay couple stayed together becoz of the companionship, someone to have dinner with, someone to go grocery shopping with, and someone to sleep with at night....
57. 2010-03-21 00:52  
I believe even among the most cynical gay singles...somewhere in him or her there's a little voice that says "maybe this is it!". Especially when he / her met someone that are perceived as "partner" material. Well I do anyway. I rather be a dreamer, hopeless romantic rather than a bitter, cynical gay man for the rest of my life.
58. 2010-03-21 02:39  
Well, I am more toward the "depressing" side of this whole gay "relationship" mantra.

I myself had never been in a relationship before.
But I find comfort in the lights of Leonardo and Michelangelo, both of whom are single for most if not all their life's.
In place of that void, they achieved great things.

I like to see myself as that...
If nothing else, as a comfort thought for me.
59. 2010-03-21 03:53  
I think some people are so in love with the idea of being in love that they forget there is a partner they're supposed to be in love with. The fantasy of what love is is so different than the reality of what love is. It is this lack of understanding that many relationships fail.
60. 2010-03-21 05:05  
A relationship regardless if gay or str8 lasts depending chemistry between the couple & keeping it fresh.

Communication, honesty & understanding that people change, grow older & knowing that hot young guy you met when you were in your 20's is still the same person today.

We will be celebrating our 18 years together soon, have good family & friends around us.

Maybe we are one lucky 1's, we compromise (not to be selfish), & let what any human would want, let each other be an individual !!

61. 2010-03-21 08:08  
Very interesting point of views here - very happy to hear that such topic hits a very deep cord in us all, regardless of our views! At the personal level, i believe LOVE is that force that keeps us together and makes us do things we wouldn't do anyway; unconditional love recognizes no gender or color, etc. For us, gays, now have this tremendous opportunity to build something solid with a partner and break beyond the boundaries and beliefs of what holds two ppl together. Honesty, open communication, care, respect, etc. all of that should be the basics and then move forward so that we can write our own rules, and to demonstrate to those who scorn us, that we can do and be good to ourselves. When my boyfriend and I said to each other: "I love you!" -inside and outside the bedroom, we felt we're in a for a long, sweet and beautiful journey.
Comment edited on 2010-03-21 09:59:03
62. 2010-03-21 10:10  
When I came out in my late teens, it was to a gay social group, in a smallish university town with no gay scene, that did coffee evenings and talks, and that had a lot of gay couples ranging from young couples to the elderly. Though I no longer live in that town, I still know some of them, decades later, all still together. So from the outset I didn't know that there was this belief that gay relationships didn't last as long as straight ones. Throughout my life I have known many more gay couples that have stayed together, than have split up, though obviously I don't know how many previous relationships they had before they decided to settle down. So it's only in more recent years that I was even really aware that we were not believed to be able to have long relationships. It simply doesn't match my experience.

I've been with my partner now for 21 years, we laugh a lot with and at each other every day, and really do say "I love you" every day, and mean it deeply, the love has increased as the years go by.

One friend died recently, he'd been with his partner about 60 years.

So, of course gay relationships last, if that is what you want, and, I guess, if that is the expectation you have. If you have a belief or expectation that gay relationships don't last, then I guess you are more likely to fullfil that expectation.

Comment edited on 2010-03-21 10:20:56
63. 2010-03-21 10:21  
I am a Psychologist, and I have many straight couples in therapy who have been married 20 plus with children, and it ended in divorce or pending divorce. I have also had marriages without children which came to and end.

It is not based on gender, sexuality or the presence of children, it is based on the individual and how they view or is able to respect the commitment or vow they have made, be it legally or privately. The further reality is that there are many who cheated who are in love with the spouse/partner when they did it; however, they were not strong enough to resist the temptation. Therefore, it is not just about love, it goes, I believe, to a deeper issue. Interestingly, I have also had gay couples in to see me, and the issues are usually the same as straight couples. My conclusion is that it is a human thing not a gay or love thing.
64. 2010-03-21 11:48  
An absolutely WELL written article. But this paragraph should really be considered deeply by all....

"My vow is to be with my partner when he contributes to our relationship. And my vow stands even when he is no longer able to contribute in certain ways (physical disability, aging complications). As long as he wants me around, and as long as I am capable of making decisions, I will be with him."

It takes 2 to achieve the above and I personally quoted and pinned this to myself the moment I knew I was gay...

It's frustrating when I only have short-term relationship that usually says : "Let’s stay together if we’re happy and it works for both of us. Once it stops working for either of us, let’s split." Truly there's nothing wrong with it, but I can't live with it.
65. 2010-03-21 11:59  
Come July my partner and I enter our 33rd year together. We are often asked what is the secret, well here it is...never go to sleep angry with each other, learn to swallow your words even if your right, learn to listen, but most of all keep laughing.
66. 2010-03-21 13:28  
dragon999.... that's a WONDERFUL statement and the perfect definition of REAL love as opposed to fairy tale dreams ! Thanks !
67. 2010-03-21 13:37  
.....sometimes they do..sometimes they don't..but most of time its a dream come true for every single gay in the world to have a relationship that lasts..
..even straight relationships does not have any assurance..but its between two people who would want to continue and end the relationship..

for me its really hard,. but i believe in love last forever,. all you have to do is to have faith, respect, and trust. whos you in..

Of course it between you and your partner....the most important is trust and being loyal. :-)
68. 2010-03-21 17:15  
Wait till the relationship ends horribly and you'll wish the Grand Canyon swallows you up.
69. 2010-03-21 17:37  
Its hard to maintain that chemistry as gay couples at times hard to compromise for each other... though I am still single and on/off exes, its hard to maintain. Really hard to get the communication to work, as I felt at times, when I like someone, the other person would just break silence and telling me still like me. It is just like making me putting on a waiting list, saying I am reserved and will get back to you.

Really need to have good communication with each other, understanding and getting to know how each other's future going to be like, in order to have the same mindset. Perhaps the person I am with now, is like treating me a spare tyre. Maybe I should find someone who is really serious in relationship, or let it comes naturally.
70. 2010-03-21 19:18  
@65, Dragon999; I absolutely agree, those are features of our relationship too. Though I would say "even if you think you're right", rather than "even if you are right".

One thing, in the search for Prince or Princess Charming, I've found that some people, particularly straight career women I know, had a list of what they wanted in a partner, down to the type of car they drive. Of course, no one ever lived up to their expectations. If anyone has such a list, I suggest they throw it away and just be open to possibilities, even to people they don't consider to be their "type". The ones that made a conscious decision to do this are now happily married.
Comment edited on 2010-03-21 20:31:50
Comment #71 was deleted by its author on 2010-03-21 19:50
72. 2010-03-21 19:55  
Great article and great comments~
Encouraging and inspiring~
I've got so much to learn...
73. 2010-03-21 20:53  
a lot of people told me or share with me that gay relationship is just a temporary cause in this cycle of life there are so any temptation well you know man...........but i still believe among them there are someone who is just like me....searching for something normal and common in a relationship just no different from the straight relationship ...for sure until end the of the life, if it could be......
74. 2010-03-21 21:06  
i love the animated cartoon.
75. 2010-03-21 22:48  
can the relationship LAST? well... depends on how you and your partner take care of it.

can the relationship HAPPY? ermm... maybe not. gays are men, which mean we are all having another instinct, to play with another person.. we may say we love our partner / husband, but we still .... will eat outside sometimes! so, there's no point discussing all this ...

depend on how you look at this, for me its all bull crap.. for those who say they are loyal to THE ONE and ONLY, ask yourself, are you sure?
76. 2010-03-21 23:31  
What ever this is all bullshit as if straight relationships out last gay relationships ..
In the end the only good is that they can breed beautiful people like us ...
I have met many Straight people in my life that have been sleeping around the partners backs .. heck I even slept with many so called Married straight..
In the end we are all the same ...
77. 2010-03-21 23:32  
What ever this is all bullshit as if straight relationships out last gay relationships ..
In the end the only good is that they can breed beautiful people like us ...
I have met many Straight people in my life that have been sleeping around the partners backs .. heck I even slept with many so called Married straight men ..
In the end we are all the same ...
78. 2010-03-22 00:08  
thx for yr article. encourages all of us.....

applaud these words:
'Sure, some of us can achieve these singlehandedly. But one thing I learnt when I climbed the Grand Canyon in Colorado, US, alone and witnessed a breathtaking sunrise there two decades ago: I wanted that special someone to share that awesome sight with me. Always.'
79. 2010-03-22 00:27  
Haaa... You should ask yourself, can gay realtionship alst long. Did you open tell your family memebers you are gay. And I heard you're Raffels Institution Science teacher and believe all your student's know you're gay...
80. 2010-03-22 00:50  
Otto, thanks for reminding us of Karl and Ellie Erikesen's love, the sweetest 10-15mins on film since Forrest Gump.

their love can survivie lack of proceation, arthirities and death, and combined with the main picture of aged men's bodies should remind gay men that if we want relationships to last, maybe we should prepared for age spots, wrinkles and many other irritations thaat may arise as 2 individuals stay together.

its a tough order, but maybe love is worth it
81. 2010-03-22 00:55  
My hetro friend ended her marriage when the 3rd party rushed in. She is alone now. At the age of near 50, she is still facing the same problem. Love is no boundary for gays, lesbians or hetro to end or bind together but rather how to face the problem together.
82. 2010-03-22 01:50  
Gay couple can last til eternity.(i believe)My bf(i know from fridae) has been dating me for almost 3 years.In relationship both parties has to be patient with each other's strengths and weakness.Settle the dispute as soon as possible and dont bear grudges and forgive and forget.Most important is be faithful!!!Yeah..
83. 2010-03-22 01:55  
I like your article especially "Ellie and Carl Married Life", but I wonder if Sex, Conflict or Guilt lords over love, gay relationship cant last. I think it is a logical fact. So think it carefully if it is a logical fact.
84. 2010-03-22 02:17  
It is a well written article. I am enlightened.
85. 2010-03-22 02:36  
very well said....i still believe in happy endings... stay in love :)
86. 2010-03-22 09:05  
For someone who is 8 months shy of 10 years, yes, it can.
I think it takes extreme respect and trust on both sides, and an open heart(not to be confused with open relationships) and not to want anything more than to give love with no expectations. It can evolve and change with time if you are willing to also learn from your partner. One doesn't have all the answers.
I really feel sorry for those that are not out, because lying about this part of life will affect your gay relationship.
87. 2010-03-22 09:34  
Children might be a way to explain why gay relationships don't last.
But, its not the only point to look at things.

Though I might not have statistics and I will not have a way to get them. I personally do feel that gay relationship doesnt last is mainly due to the "mind".

Some can differentiate love and sex. And most of all, I personally feel gays, (men), use their tools to think. What will sexually arouse you, your love or relationship will get jeopadized.
88. 2010-03-22 13:06  
What about those fail marriage with kids? At the very end still the kids are the one going to suffer with single parent or even forced to stay with grand parents.

In gay love and relationship, being honest, trust and open to each other in every expect is more important and lead the relationship longer. Some how without good communication, once missed understanding happen then it will cause many possibilities of break up, and all these are same for heterosexual marriage.

To me, i do love some one very much and i do understand he do love me in return but in a very different way that he don't love me as a lover but still very much care for me as a son of him. To me its just one way traffic and yet still love him so much and we do take good care for each other. of course we do have 4 wonderful years together and now we still are fine with what we have now and he very honest to me that he'll still look for his love one but at the same time he will never dump me for the other party and some more the one that he love must accept me as one family and he said that if he do find some one that so selfish to ask him dump me for them being together, he'll never do that cos he do love me also and selfish kind of love will never be true love and also may not last long.

With this great man in my life, even i dont get lover's kind of love in return but i never regret that i know some one so nice to me and love me as well even we are not mean to be lover but still a good companion and in a nice family. Is that nice in gay relationship.

Comes to any kind of relationship or friendship, respect to each other and treasure every moment in life is a very good experience to everyone. The most important is we truly treat other people from the bottom of our heart.

For those who separated due to missed understanding, i feel so sorry to them. for those who now in relationship with some one special, communication in life, trust, respect and all expect are very important to keep the relationship lasting and even more. For those who still single, i wish all will find their love ones very soon and when found some one, really treasure the relationship will kind heart, trust true to each other. Also in what ever kind of situation you are now, never ever have the thought of take things for granted from the other party because its only will make the other one keep a distance more.
89. 2010-03-22 13:14  
...for most, at the initial stage, it was the journey that matters, true enough..the journey brings out what our inner self really wants, it's only then, that from your destination..your real journey begins.
90. 2010-03-22 16:11  
Oh dear!!!... Forget about love, forget about vows, forget about the effects of societal pressure. Its all very simple... the reason any relationship flourishes is because there is a common goal to which both partners are committed

Heteros have it easy because most often the common goal is children and when the welfare of the children is not the common goal then even those relationships can fail.

Where there is a common goal both partners are prepared to commit and adapt and compromise because the goal is paramount. With a goal a relationship can survive without love and without sex but with both it makes survival a whole lot easier. But neither sex nor love on its own is sufficient goal for survival

In Malaysia where real relationships are extremely rare... mostly they are distant fuckbuddyships... relationships are guaranteed to fail because the common goal is usually "me"
91. 2010-03-22 18:36  
While marriage and life-long relationships are not everyone's cup of tea, I think it is important for gay people to know that it is possible to find a lifemate if they want one.

Certainly, as a young man I never dreamed I would be able to find the happiness that I have. Now that my same-sex spouse and I are approaching old age, we are having to face the reality that one of us one day will be left alone. (We have been together for more than 33 years.) If I survive my spouse, I do not believe I will feel the terrible loneliness I felt as a young man who thought he would never be able to find happiness as a gay man. I now have the knowledge that lifelong gay love is indeed possible ... and I will have wonderful memories to sustain me.
92. 2010-03-22 20:39  
no, it will eventually turn into open relationship or worst when you found out what he did out there.
93. 2010-03-22 20:57  
wow, great article and glad good topics are coming back instead of losing your audience to win political points that people don't really care about

I do think straight people have more support to try and get their marriage right than gay people, inspite of all kinds of odds being stacked against them-- there exisits lots of support groups, charities, friends, and a legal system that protects family interests

But once gay men and women get married, purchase a home together, be accountable to families, and settle down and have kids, and begin taking care of their elderly parents... of course these responsiiblities bring more stability and less selfishness and narcism....

personally I think the biggest threat to gay relationships is that sex is not like fast food, too many easy distractions-- lots of gay men my Dad's age look back at the good old days when gay relationships were tender and simple with less distractions



94. 2010-03-22 21:02  
In my family I have seven other brothers. Five straight, two gay and one bi. The two gay ones have the long lasting relationships and great and capable husbands. There marriages are strong. I have two straight ones that are already divorced and on to their second wives. My other brother is straight and unmarried and dating a hot model. I don't think any formula exists, its just life but when we get together its all great fun and family.
95. 2010-03-22 22:08  
God in the heaven, I want to pray. In fact we know gay isn't very luck and happy in our lives. We need to admire the true situation and face something troublesome in our lives. We can know the relationshiop between gays which isn't easy to last for a long time. Thanks to a lot of reasons cause a lot of problem and then let us feel very confused. I just can say that prayer will get the good news and then their relationship should be better than one who isn't unreligion. If you have a good partener to be willing to learn and trust God, he believes in God and you also believe. Therefore I think that you can last for a long time and get alone with each other.
96. 2010-03-22 23:09  
I think vows do mean something, having come from a relationship where we were in the early stages of getting engaged. I decided to treat it seriously and thought a lot about whether I really wanted to be with the guy forever. Unfortunately, I was unable to envision it that way. Whatever 'it' is, it just wasn't there to the extent that I was willing to sacrifice all.
97. 2010-03-22 23:11  
I think vows do mean something, having come from a relationship where we were in the early stages of getting engaged. I decided to treat it seriously and thought a lot about whether I really wanted to be with the guy forever. Unfortunately, I was unable to envision it that way. Whatever 'it' is, it just wasn't there to the extent that I was willing to sacrifice all.
98. 2010-03-23 01:16  
I think there should be many many options, but the basic foundation, is that there be a legal registration of same sex spousal unions. I don't care if we call it marriage, joanne, or henry, just make it legal and guarantee equal rights for all persons, regardless of sexual orientation.

Best wishes.
99. 2010-03-23 01:16  
I think there should be many many options, but the basic foundation, is that there be a legal registration of same sex spousal unions. I don't care if we call it marriage, joanne, or henry, just make it legal and guarantee equal rights for all persons, regardless of sexual orientation.

Best wishes.
100. 2010-03-23 01:47  
I love the animation of Carl and Ellie. Otto has a very good point. Thank you for your point of view!
101. 2010-03-23 04:58  
yeah i see gay relationship lasts but only for ugly couples.
102. 2010-03-23 07:01  
@101; LOL, they do say it's a curse to be born beautiful.
103. 2010-03-23 07:20  
Impressive article as well as the animation! Makes a very good point! Opinions about relationships are like leaves blowing in the wind, they land in different places. Let's be strong and believe in love from all walks of life!

Eventhough I am single, I will always believe in love and that there is a Mr Right out there for everyone!;-)
104. 2010-03-23 07:41  
Each relationship is only as good as what you put into it.
I have friends that have been in committed relationship for over 50 years, and several friends that are in for anywhere from 25 to 40 years.
Of course these couples are not going out to bars or dancing anymore.
Being in my early 50s I can attest than even when I was much younger and carefree (pre-aids crisis), I was very much influenced by the example of older friends and colleagues who were in relationships that lasted longer that the average straight marriage.
The fact that few young people see these role models who started their love story when all of this was illegal throughout the world, probably reinforce de stereotype of gay relationship not lasting.
I am proof that relationships last a very long time, going on my 30s anniversary with a wonderful man.
Don't let people decide what you should think. Be happy, be honest with yourself and your lover, do what is right for your couple, and you will succeed.
Physical beauty is only skin dip and very temporary. Know who you are, what you like and go get it. It is there for the taking
Best of luck
105. 2010-03-23 11:11  
I was in a faithfull relationship for 27 years, I am now in a new relationship that is headed towared long term, my fear is he is much younger then myself. All of my friends have been in long term relationships and all of the young gay men I know are seeking long term relationships that are faithfull. The only gay men I have knon that were sluts, jumping from man to man each night where the disco queens in my youth or now we call them clubbers, I know calling them sluts is wrong, I too played when I was young that is what being young is all about is having some fun, then you decided to settle down, hang up your slut outfit and find a man to spend your life with.

I guess my point is, most guys want a committed relationship, only a few guys both str8 and gay go on to be life long T room Queens, the rest of us search out the right guy and settle down and hope it lasts.

Tom, Long Beach, Ca.
106. 2010-03-23 15:51  
"Can gay relationships last?" The answer is, of course, "yes". But on the other hand many gay relationships do not last, just like many straight relationships. I've been with my partner for 26 years -- longer than most of my straight friends and relatives -- and our relationship is stronger than ever.
107. 2010-03-23 17:42  
here's a REAL STORY happens on 26th December 09:30pm sg time. A 20 years friend of mine, Gay, he had a nice loving Bf, shop, condo and another 2 young Bf.

and suddenly.. on that nite his house mate came back from work, found him DEAD! NAKED! and Hands/Legs tied to his bed.
Police Verdicts, HEART ATTACK after sex. Nothing's taken in his home.

So... motives is.. Thou GAY RELATIONSHIPS can last FOREVER but Can we make it FOREVER?

As a close friens, It took me 2 months to forget him. But still WONDERING..? What happened to all his APPOINTMENTS, HIS UPCOMING OVERSEAS TRIPS, TRAVELS, HIS PROPERTIES and so on.. worst is.. the 2 boys he giving academic supports.. what will happend to them and their futures?

so guys... THINK POSITIVE all the way in our lives.. in any RELATIONSHIPS.. SEX is Partial.. TRUST, UNDERSTANDING and FLEXIBILITY is the key to staying fit and keeping realtionships longer.

We have Up's and Down's.. Hurts & Love.. Tears & laughters... most important is.. LOVE YOURSELVES first. Before you could love others.

take care.... God Bless all of you.. those whom was Hurt.. Give yrself a 2nd Chanced. Asked me anything.. i'll be delighted to answer it Openly.

Bye
108. 2010-03-23 18:55  
Great topic.

Personally, I haven't been into any real relationship. Shall I attach to someone in the future? Will that relationship last forever? Who knows?

Things happen for its reason.

You can find someone you love. But you can't tie him up if you guys can't make your relationship work.

Maybe heterosexual relationships have more supports from social aspects than homosexual ones, but if you and your partner couldn't make it work, no body could either.

To me, there is no forever love but there are romantic, beautiful loves that make us treasure our lives.

Good luck with your lives, guys! :)
109. 2010-03-23 19:58  
In my point of view, regardless of what will work, and what will not, it comes down to oneself - what one thinks, how one wants it, and of course doing it without any regrets

Whether it is a right or wrong decision, whether it will last long or not, one way to find out - that is to get involved :)

110. 2010-03-25 03:27  
This preoccupation with time as a yardstick for success in a relationship is really beginning to make the whole endeavour sound like some AA program (and one with no "monogamy chip" to boot) ;)

Still, great to see a few good role models within the comments section :)

On a different note, have any entrepreneurial types out there set up some sort of gay relationship counselling centre in Singapore? (There are probably such services... but just not as well advertised as the saunas :)

Cheers!
111. 2010-03-25 11:49  
We often forget that within the glbt community there is great diversity too. We often hear about and see stereotypes of gay men who change partners as often as they change underwear. There are obviously gay men and women too actually who prefer to do that. It is their choice, along with choosing to spend time at clubs and parties and have different companions. They have every right.

The thing is, we hear often from them, but not enough from the glbt men and women who have settled down to a life like Carl and Ellie's. I am in my late 30s and I personally know many many couples, gay and lesbian who have been and are still in longterm relationships. The years they have been together range from 21yrs to 30yrs. It's really sweet to see them.

I think the gay community is often too harsh on ourselves because we have gotten used to the harshness and condemnation from the heterosexual community and we unconsciously believe what they say: 'gay relationships don't last', 'gay people are promiscuous', 'gay is a lifestyle that includes drugs and partying, that's why they don't last', etc etc.

Look at the straight world. In the states, 50% of straight marriages end in divorce. In Singapore and other first world nations, 30% end in divorces. Look at the Tiger Woods, Jack Neo, don't you think the former probablly is more prolific than any gay man is rumoured to be?

So I throw it back at the straight world. There is no such thing as an ideal relationship and/or marriage. We all do the best we can. And as the world gets messier and gay people come out more, our stats will equalise.

And gay relationships are just as good if not better, cos we are clearer about what we want. Cos it's so much harder for us, let us love ourselves more and treasure our relationships more instead of letting it go when the sun comes up. We need to build up the tools, that's all - learning how to fight the right way for eg. @65, dreagon999 put it best already.

Good luck!
112. 2010-03-25 16:13  
113. 2010-03-25 16:17  
So Otto, you found the observations "offensive". As Christopher Hitchens said in a similar context, so fucking what? Get over it!
114. 2010-03-25 22:44  
I think too much emphasis is placed on being in a relationship. We are told constantly that we need to find someone. What's wrong with being single?

I know lots of people that got into relationships for the sake of security. This in my view is wrong, gay people need to have the confidence to be able to be single and thus treat there partner as more than just security.
115. 2010-03-26 00:23  
can it last? of course.

the question, HOW?

it is not so difficult, and we are just lacking the advantages and privileges straight couples have when they are in a relationship.
in singapore, publicity is very crucial. me and my partner always feel closed and insecure whenever we want to show affections in a crowd or in any public places.

we dont really need marriage or those kind of things. the first thing we need is Acceptance from the people. (:
116. 2010-03-26 10:56  
Well all I know, from personal experience, is that I had a partner for 30 years, most of which was happy good and fulfilling. I think that,so called "Gay relationships" can work, and work very well BUT honesty and compromise is the key to success.
117. 2010-03-29 19:39  
I am in a long term relationship for 12 years so far, and we are getting closer and closer, we have our problems, and we all different individuate, but as corny as it sound, love does fill the gap, just don't confuse love with something else. Do people actually know what "love" is, or just a "strong feeling" about someone? the feeling that comes with sexual desire, "can't live without that person", "feel devastating if that person doesn't "love" me, or put me on the pedestal, worship me, adore me," in short, "IN LOVE" and " LOVE" is not to be confused, here I think are the possible combinations in relationships:

"IN LOVE" but no "LOVE"
not "IN LOVE" but "LOVE"
"IN LOVE" and "LOVE"

I wonder which will turn out to be a long term relationship? what do you think?

But of cause things are not as simple as that! there are two in a relationship, so if we double up the combination, the chances of a perfect match is made in heaven.



118. 2010-11-04 01:35  
Is this website brave enough to lead the world forward to champion and release by every country, politcians, leaders, statesman, industry and celebrities (the latter, if we have to read about them again) and make the global community realise that being "gay" is not a choice. There are many fine people in the world and private lives are not a tabloid or boardroom issue. Thank You
119. 2014-02-13 07:22  


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