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25 Jun 2009

'Bruno' under fire from US gay groups

Although Sacha Baron Cohen’s latest mocumentary Bruno has not hit the big screens, the movie has come under fire from US gay groups who warn that the movie may further encourage gay stereotypes than to dispel them.

Marketing itself as "Delicious Journeys Through America for the Purpose of Making Heterosexual Males Visibly Uncomfortable in the Presence of a Gay Foreigner in a Mesh T-Shirt," British comedian Sacha Baron Cohen (of Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan fame) is back in the game as Bruno, an outrageously camp Austrian fashion journalist who tries the push the boundaries of the real life personalities he interviews.

Bruno has been heralded to be a satirical attempt to expose the prejudices and bigotries of people he interviews in the US in the hopes of becoming a Hollywood celebrity - or, as he puts it: "I want to be the biggest Austrian superstar since Hitler!"

Gay groups are however concerned that some viewers may instead leave the theatres with their existing stereotypes about gay people reinforced, and their homophobia validated.

Above: Bruno poses nude for the cover of GQ (July edition); pink hotpants-clad workers erecting a Bruno billboard on Tues, Jun 23 at Taylor Square on Oxford Street - Sydney’s famous gay strip - ahead of the movie’s Jun 29 premiere in the city.
"Some people in our community may like this movie, but many are not going to be O.K. with it," Rashad Robinson, senior director of media programs for the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD), was quoted as saying in The New York Times on Jun 11. "Sacha Baron Cohen’s well-meaning attempt at satire is problematic in many places and outright offensive in others.”

The film shows Bruno crashing Milan Fashion Week and the American military, and dropping his pants during an interview with US presidential candidate Ron Paul. The same Times report revealed that a scene in the movie shows Brüno having sex in a hot tub while a baby sits nearby and later tells a talk-show audience that having a baby is a man magnet. The paper also quoted a source who said that the scene "consists of still images that were photoshopped – no baby was actually present – and that the sex is only strongly implied."

In another scene, Bruno consults with a Karate instructor to learn to protect himself from gay people. "They probably would tackle from behind," the instructor says. "If they get close to you, hit them."

And how can one spot a gay man? The instructor replies: "Obvious is a person being extremely nice… Some of them don’t even dress no different than myself or you."

The Human Rights Campaign (HRC) spokesman Brad Luna said: "We strongly feel that Sacha Baron Cohen and Universal Pictures have a responsibility to remind the viewing public right there in the theater that this is intended to expose homophobia."

Gay website Queerty.com quoted HRC as saying: "If the context and intent behind this kind of particular humour is about exposing and making fun of homophobia to show the ridiculousness of it, that is one thing. What is undeniable though is the impact on the audience is going to vary. Although we view the movie for what it is, a satirical portrayal of stereotyping, we shouldn’t lose sight of the seriousness of this issue. The #1 epithet used on schoolyards across the country remains anti-gay slurs.

"In the last few months, we have had to continually witness the heartbreaking suicides of young boys who were taunted and bullied using anti-gay epithets. It continues to remain a serious problem in this country.

"(The producers) have a responsibility to make sure that the viewing public understands this character is done as satire to poke fun at stereotyping. Otherwise, they run the risk of 16 yr old high school boys across the country feeling empowered to bully schoolmates. And tragically we already know what the consequences of that are."

The reports also quoted Aaron Hicklin, the editor of Out, a US gay magazine, who said he is excited that there might be more awareness about the issue and plans to put the star on the August cover.

"The movie does something hugely important, which is showing that people’s attitudes can turn on a dime when they realise you’re gay," Hicklin said.

"The multiplex crowd wouldn’t normally sit down for a two-hour lecture on homophobia, but that’s exactly what’s going to happen. I’m excited about that."

The film had began making the headlines over a year ago when he was believed to have outraged thousands of unsuspecting audience members when he filmed undercover at two cage-fighting events in the US state of Arkansas where two fighters stripped to their underwear before kissing and "rubbing one another."

Following a host of headline hogging stunts since landing his jock-strapped behind on faux-outraged Eminem’s face at the recent MTV Movie Awards and appearing nude on the cover of GQ, he has kept up the momentum with his antics during his recent promotional activities in major European capital cities.

London saw him in an "updated" Buckingham Palace guard-inspired outfit with tight black hotpants and boots; Madrid, as an anatomically-correct bull; Berlin, in a pink bodysuit with prominent “genitalia”; in the red-light district of Amsterdam, in a cut off suit with an exposed a red thong and so on. (See photos at top of page)

Bruno Movie Trailer

Reader's Comments

1. 2009-06-25 17:41  
tHIs is Awesome!
Comment edited on 2009-06-25 17:42:23
2. 2009-06-25 18:11  
Well, we were all laughing when he trashed an entire central Asian nation. Let's see if we lose that sense of humor when he hits a little closer to our groins. Of course, if you're a homosexual Kazakh, you just can't get no R-E-S-P-E-C-T!
3. 2009-06-25 18:46  
SEE IT or NOT.....LOVE IT or HATE IT....it's a....M - O - V - I - E.
4. 2009-06-25 19:30  
I agree with Caesar on this one. It's a bloody movie. If you can make fun of Kazakhstan and the nation's PM can look at it as a tourism highlight, just look at it in the same manner.
5. 2009-06-25 19:30  
Groups like GLAAD seem to want to program society and have it thinking along lines of politically correct propaganda. When, oh when are they going to realize that you cannot tell people what to say and think?
The function of satire and irony is to increase awareness of the irrationality of people's modes of thinking and stereotypes through humour - it is a far more effective tool politically than boring politically correct propaganda could ever hope to be. What did GLAAD want Bruno to be anyway? A straight-acting, dour gay man lecturing us about the importance of equal rights, mutual respect and safer sex? What a hoot of a movie that would have been. I confer with caesar2003: It's a bloody comedy, not a Stalinist propaganda film.
6. 2009-06-25 20:13  
Wait a second...... I thought I was reading about a gay "pride" parade and then I see it just another movie.....

amazing.... gay men and women can act like this in a gay "pride" parade and it is simply called a positive expression of our sexuality, yet when someone else does it under the guise of humor and satire it is detrimental and reinforces stereotypes... hmmm

I would rather see this move than see the conduct of gays the world over prancing down streets in a so called "pride" parade.

7. 2009-06-25 20:59  
what a joke Americans are, so many Gay men especially Americans are sad cliched queers... it's art imitating life for a change, just like Kath & Kim over here...if the coat fits...live with it fellas.
8. 2009-06-25 23:30  
I can’t wait to see this. This guy has to be one of the bravest and funniest actor-comedians around.

The demand to put a notice at the beginning explaining the movie to American audiences is also hilarious.

I suspect that Kuman10127 (post 6) is also a Sacha Baron Cohen creation. The double irony of putting down the "real" Brunos out there while wanting to see a movie that satirises his own attitude is just brilliant.
9. 2009-06-26 00:10  
haha hilarious! Can't wait to see it
10. 2009-06-26 00:55  
whats the big deal? gays make fun of straights all the time....
11. 2009-06-26 01:17  
i myself am not too worried about this film but i do feel that these people's concerns are perfectly warranted. i don't see how accusing them of being "overly-pc" somehow makes you above it all.
Comment #12 was deleted by its author
13. 2009-06-26 06:44  
The visit to Amsterdam was lots of fun. See the link below


www.at5.nl/artikelen/18600/nu-ook-pink-light-district-in-stad
14. 2009-06-26 07:03  
some people seriously need to get a sense of humour!
it's just a movie, take a f***ing chill pill!
15. 2009-06-26 08:05  
This is a total STUPID, brainless, and rather disgusting (at times) movie!You talk about wanting to STOP the stereotypes about gays because, for the most part, it is based on IGNORANCE, right? Well, this Bruno dude sure does a great job at reinforcing all those stereotypes!

Sure you may get a laugh here and there, from being so stupid and/or disgusting. But, unless you don't care wasting your time and money then go watch the movie, just don't say you weren't warned though! Otherwise, it is definitely worth the wait until it comes out on DVD!

Good thing I watched it for free!!!:-)

PS. Demoted is actually a funnier and a much better movie!
16. 2009-06-26 09:07  
can't wait to see it
17. 2009-06-26 10:05  
" Straight" are jealous they (many of them) are homosexual, but good pretenders! And as much they are against us, that much they love to be like us!

Unfortunately "straight" are not real people!

GAY AND LESBIANS ARE VERY INTELLIGENT AND CLEVER PEOPLE!
REGARDS KRIS!
18. 2009-06-26 10:25  
Some great comments here _
and every single one of them is right.

This movie will re-inforce some people's stereotypes,
and for others it will satirise their ignorance.
For some of us it will simply be a great laugh and for others
it will be deeply offensive.

If media such as this is able to create a platform for discussion,
and prevent complacency around issues of equality and tolerance -
then great!
- regardless of whether this is the intention of the movie or not.

Drew :)
19. 2009-06-26 11:54  
no, it's actually not "just a movie". for a huge majority of the world, EVERYTHING they know/believe about gays is based on what they see in the media.
Comment #20 was deleted by its author
Comment #21 was deleted by its author
22. 2009-06-26 12:43  
The Americans are upset because Sacha always shows up Americian society for what it is, shallow and without a sence of humour.
23. 2009-06-26 12:45  
if people are so stupid as to form opinions and beleif systems based on disconnected media content then that's their misfortune. Entertainers, performers & script writers ought not censor them selves on the fear that the less intelligently gifted take it seriously they cannot take responsibility for others lack of critical skills, hmmmm well I never liked Barons other characters what I seen of this one is equally stupid, I doubt I will bother go see it I prefer different humour... as my good mother used to say "Vulgarity is the lowest form of wit" it does nothing to entice me... neither did I like 'little Britains' gay characters they were equally insipid yet G & L Mardi gras here flew em out to launch the Gay & Lesby Mardi gras season one year...what a coup (said tongue in cheek) and on Sydney G & L Mardi Gras the Austrian fashionista was probably modelled on Sydneys sad yearly spectacle, the 'queering lobby' are so inane I have no time for them they are so scattered and all over the place so philosophically decayed.
24. 2009-06-26 13:25  
It seems rather premature to begin the backlash before Bruno hits the big screen. Of course it'll be puerile and offensive - that's what Sacha Baron Cohen does! Judge the movie on its own merits, don't drag immature hair-trigger judgements into things - are we Midwest fundamentalists, now? I have a simple method - if I don't want to see a film, I don't go and see it. I didn't deny millions of morons The Island, Terminator 3 or The Love Guru just because I felt they were insults to humanity. Grow up, gays.
25. 2009-06-26 18:17  
I really think this is all good fun.....lets also learn to laugh at ourselves......

wow...i've just seen a gorgeous species of beautiful HOMO sexual.....quaint....

xxx

gavin
26. 2009-06-26 20:37  
Xepherus says: "if I don't want to see a film, I don't go and see it. I didn't deny millions of morons The Island, Terminator 3 or The Love Guru just because I felt they were insults to humanity."

How do you know they were insults to humanity if you didn't go and see them?

A movie may be bad in someone's opinion, but it hardly makes it an "insult to humanity". Slight exaggeration there maybe. But you're right about censorship, so long as it's not propaganda to incite hatred against a group, it should be shown and people can decide for themselves.
27. 2009-06-27 02:50  
there is not enough laughter in this world, so thank your god for Bruno !
28. 2009-06-27 09:21  
The XXIst century is about to achieve a process which started roughly after World War II and would be the ultimate dream of every dictator : grafting efficient censorship directly in the hearts and minds of the people rather than imposing it through laws, police and courts.

The cherry on the cake being that if you don't like it, well, too bad because there is no one to blame, no dictator to oust. There can be no "resistance" when there is no identifiable oppressor like there was under every single dictatorship so far in history.
H.G. Wells, Aldous Huxley and Ray Bradbury ("fahrenheit 451") in their wildest nightmares did not imagine anything so efficient and... soft.
One contemporary author who was accutely aware of the problem and brilliantly treated it in several of his books was Michael Crichton who sadly passed away recently.

In comment #2 I read : "he (S.B. Cohen) trashed an entire central asian nation" and in the 25 subsequent comments I look in vain for a reaction to this. None. Mind busting.

No, no, no, a million times no, Cohen did NOT "trash a nation" in the film "Borat", what he trashed was common human traits such as philistine stupidity, racism in every possible disguise (and there are lots), arrogant self-righteousness, stupid patriotism (in my eyes a pleonasm), religious bigotry etc. What he's saying is that those traits exist in every human being, no matter if they live in Kazakhstan (so called un-developped) or the US (so called developped).

To prove his point he uses one of the many tools from the human toolbox called "sense of humour" and which was already used by Aristophanes, the Commedia del'Arte, Molière and many others, and which is called the FARCE. Some people don't like it, some people do, just like any other form of humour, but only a fool would take a farce seriously ie from a "first degree" point of view.

In a farce, the outrageous character who screams, for example, "all the Jews and all the hairdressers should be put to death" is not making a statement about Jews and hairdressers, he's making a statement about people like himself and there is a unwritten "contract" between the author and the audience which clearly states that this is what the farce is all about.

When you lose the ability to understand the basic rules of humour such as the one i just pointed out, you may consider that you're on your way to become the perfect citizen of the Politically Correct Planetary State. I am truly and honestly thankful that I'm 53 already, because i'd hate to be in my early 20s and realize that I may have to live in this Wonderful State for another odd 60 years or more. But then, if I was in my early 20s, I guess I would not see what's going on, what is at stake, I would be happily politically correct and I would say things like "I'm not interested in politics"... brrrr.....
29. 2009-06-28 05:20  
Take the good with the bad. Freedom of expression, opinion and speech is protected, at least here. If you want to protest...don't pay the money to see it or go make your own film.
30. 2009-06-29 12:50  
though i find his rainbow body-suit pic a little surreal haha, i enjoyed kuman10127's comment, more than i did watching bruno being interviewed by conan o'brien the other night. i just didn't find the guy funny - maybe the movie will be different because the OJ crack in the clip was really wicked, but i wouldn't pay money to see it. whatever one's take on it, it's brilliantly exploitative of the in-your-face baron...

as far as reinforcing stereotypes is concerned, perhaps many of the wounds today are self-inflicted by the hubris of some of the more sexually irresponsible, self-absorbed or politically-retentive people in the LGBT community itself... i think many want a different approach now... both in the west and especially here in Asia.

btw, have you watched the BBC's Graham Norton? now, he's very funny, and he obviously isn't "straight", but he doesn't have to join a "gay" pink parade or spout pc garbage for us to see that this very likably cheeky guy has real wit and talent, and yet also has respect for others! now, that's pr! cheers :)
31. 2009-06-29 15:59  
Well, Graham - who's Irish, from the next neighbourhood over to me in Dublin - rubs up a Lot of gay people the wrong way. (Yup, surprise surprise, including me!) It just seems that the Only kind of gay person, or character, that we see on television or at the cinema is a kind of rude, screamingly camp kind of character, and of course I know that Graham's just playing up on that whole "Ooooh, aren't I awful?" line of humour, but... it's just that I wish we had an alternative kind of gay guy who's seen on TV, or in the movies, apart from Graham, or 'Bruno' etc.

Almost every last one of my gay friends seem pretty Normal to me; coming from all walks of life, and careers; they're anything but Graham or Bruno-esque, but it just seems that they, or We, are never shown on the big or small screen, just the usual easy stereotypes of a certain - and singular - kind of gay man.

It just gets... old, you know? It's one thing to be on the inside, looking out, with gay guys (and gals) knowing and understanding the gag, and, sure, seeing that 'Bruno' is also poking fun at some expectations of homosexuality. Fine, I get it. Unfortunately, doesn't it also have to be recognised that, yes, 'Bruno' is going to reinforce a very negative image of homosexuality for a lot of people, who'll come away from it further believing what 'Them Gays' are like?

It's just a movie, and I'm sure it'll be entertaining enough... but I'll pass on seeing it...
32. 2009-06-29 18:58  
vercoda, sir, thanks for setting me straight :p refreshing! i just hope Fridae will stop calling every single one "girlfriend" now...
erm, could we have a review of Brothers and Sisters now from you?
seriously... haha :)
33. 2009-06-30 03:30  
#28 has no sense of humor.
34. 2009-06-30 06:21  
hahahaha
35. 2009-06-30 12:56  
Hell, I have to say something because it’s happening again...

In a recent article about the defunct Bangkok Pride, a member called “vercoda” made an incredibly racist, aggressive and arrogant (not to mention totally off the point) comment about how shocked he was to see “old and fat” white guys going out with young Thais. He was not ranting against pedophiles, he was, I repeat, condemning relationships between “old and fat” western guys and younger (NOT underage) Thais.

Another member called “yveserwan” commented on that shocking statement and I urge everyone here to read his comment if it’s still here because it is simply remarkable and obviously indicates that the writer is highly cultured, intelligent and articulate.

I regularly read the Fridae articles and enjoy them most of the time. I also read the comments and find them very revealing, in all kinds of ways. Most members seem to use this comment board solely as a tribune to air their angers, insecurities, frustrations, or simply their ego (plenty of that). I go through their self-serving blah blah with a smile and move on.

Some members, however (and yveserwan is one of them), do write things that help me widen my views, see the issue from a different angle, go deeper into the subject and learn to distance myself from ready-made conceptions. I thank those members for taking the time to share their experience, knowledge and understanding.

As yveserwan’s reply obviously scratched Mr vercoda’s ego, the latter wrote all kinds of nasty and silly things to which yveserwan was wise enough not to overreact upon. Vercoda also virtually accused yveserwan of pedophilia, and all I can say is that when people feel the urge to hit below the belt rather than produce sound and consistent arguments, well, it just shows that they don’t know where the brain is located !

The same thing happened here. ‘Seoulseeker’ comes up with this utterly silly comment in which he claims that Sasha Baron Cohen “trashed an entire Central Asian nation” (Kazakhstan) in his movie “Borat”. ‘yveserwan’ contradicts that statement with clear and challenging arguments. What does Seoulseeker reply ? well, see for yourself, he replies that yveserwan doesn’t have a sense of humour. The reaction is soooooo unintelligent that it speaks for itself and yveserwan’s reply “hahahhaa” is certainly the only viable one. It's also quite funny, actually.

I’m not here to help yveserwan face silly comments and nasty allegations. I’m sure he can handle that by himself and much better than I ever would as he obviously has the vast culture and brilliant mind to do so. My point is that I wish this comment board would attract more yveserwan(s) and less vercoda(s) or seoulseekers(s)… yeeeeees yes I know, freedom of expression for everyone and blah blah blah, it’s just that some people’s egos are soooooooo hyperinflated that they can’t stand the smallest contradiction. They’re probably spoilt brats because theirs is a typical spoilt brat attitude.

However a comment board is meant to encourage debate, and debate implies contradiction, so guys, if you can’t be intellectually challenged and offer an intellectual reaction rather than insults, you should write on your personal blogs only and see if anyone’s interested ! I’m not.

36. 2009-06-30 15:42  
Nice. You get to throw insults around, while condemning the practise of insulting people, and reducing what I said to some kind of trash-talk, thus disregarding what everyone else who May think the same thing as me as some kind of immature, juvenile and -

Actually, life's too short, right? That guy has his opinion, you have yours, I have mine and they have theirs... and it doesn't serve any of us well to sink into he-said-you-said tit-for-tat arguments. It was a little unecessary to add that stuff above, but I think we'll all just look like weird, aggressive assholes if this "Oh yeah? Well..." attitude continues.

True, I'm a little surprised at getting this, my first taste of pure vitriol and highly personal and public attacks after years of being on Fridae (I mean, who ARE you people, and why single my not-so-shocking comments out like this?), but, fine. Not everyone agrees with you; you can't be liked by everyone; and it's fine if, on This thread and topic, there are violently opposed points of view. That's debate, and openess at work, even if these comments do feel unecessarily muddied.

Good luck, gentlemen...
37. 2009-06-30 16:07  
But, after thinking about it, in my defence - if I'm allowed to defend myself, seeing as there are a few voices railing against me in this thread, above... seeing as I'm being blamed for criticising many (but NOT Every) aging Westerner in Thailand etc picking up someone young enough to be his grandson, or certainly easily his son - I'd like to offer what my Thai friend said when I commented on all the White guys I mentioned that were all over his Thai Pride photos, which is what seemed to have kicked up this firestorm.

As HE said, a local Thai guy who'd taken those Pride photos in Thailand, when I commented on all the obviously middlle-aged and upwards white guys draped over Thai twinks: "Oh, they're just white perverts; they come every year to pick up boys." His words, not mine.

So, you know... if it seems that locals disapprove of older white guys picking up guys 20, 30 or even 40+ years younger than them, I don't think it's very fair to blame ME for also saying that, in general, it seems to be Wrong, and that for Most of those guys there is a wildly unequal status.

Maybe inter-generational relationships are much more accepted over there; but Here, regardless of sex or sexuality, such things are still largely taboo, and frowned upon... and, given Thailand's continuing and unfortunate reputation for sex tourism in Some parts, I'm sorry, but I can't let you simply attack me for what appears (to me, and to locals, and to other guys from Thailand) to be another group of Western men largely working the system there. Are my comments fair and balanced enough?

Or are those who've been attacking me going to try to say that, "Oh, No, almost every last one of those aging and older white guy [labelled 'perverts' by my Thai friend, remember] just Happens to be a really wonderful gentleman who just Happens to be with a guy 20, 30 or 40+ years younger than him, in case after case after case"?

I'm not agist. I have nothing against white people. I'm not jealous of caucasians meeting asian guys in Thailand etc. But I won't let Anyone accuse me of being racist etc for raising These points, which are beyond obvious. It's not about 'ego', although of course I don't like being attacked and insulted - who would, or does? But it IS about addressing being publicly accused of Whatever - I wouldn't let someone just start shouting at me in the street, so why let insults fly over here?

To conclude - have I personally attacked anyone here, or named anyone in this reply? No. So, please, less of the accusations of personal attacks, when I've used very polite and clear language, simply to defend myself against whatever reasons different opinions and outlooks have been turned into personal attacks.

The Defence rests.

As they used to say in bars: No Politics or Religion. Or multiple attacks on others for saying something you don't agree with, even though I'm perfectly capable of standing up to it - I'd rather not, as I think this makes us ALL look like crazy letter writers. Right? (:-/
38. 2009-06-30 20:27  
hahaha Vercoda you're quite a feature you know ?
Your endless self-defence here reminds me of something I read in a John Grisham novel... in court's jargon it's called "overkill", lol... you spend so much time and energy pleading your cause that in the end, all you prove is... that you've definitely done something wrong !
And something wrong you DID ! You may try to present yourself as the nice guy, nay the poor victim who never accused anyone or never said anything bad or impolite but if fridae readers take the time to read the original comment of yours that started all this, they will see for themselves (its in the comments after the article on the Bangkok Pride).

In that comment you lash out like some american newborn Christian preacher at "old fat white guys" who go with young Thais. Tell me, Vercoda, are these people taking something from you ? Are they harming you in any way ? And if not, then why do you treat them like trash ? Why do you attack them so arrogantly ? Where in the LAW does it say that a 60 year old guy cannot go with a 20 year old guy (or gal for that matter) ? Where ? in The Napoleonic Revisited Vercode maybe ?

Like it or not, buddy boy, the law is the law and once people are of legal age sexually, they do what THEY want and not what YOU think is good for them. Like it or not also, older and fatter guys have a RIGHT to have a sexual life, and it may not look good in your book, but again that doesn't give you the right to lash out at them. I have many young Thai friends here in Bangkok (and i'm not talking about money boys) who PREFER older guys and a lot also happen to PREFER "poompui" guys ie chubby... yes ! Mr Sanctimonious, it takes all kinds !! It even takes the likes of you to make this world as rich as it is, so welcome to a world of all kinds and stop telling people who they should love and who they should f**k, ok ?

oh and stop playing the victim, you just don't have the looks :-))
39. 2009-07-01 09:11  
'danu22btm' what a perceptive, accomplished, and down to earth writer you are.
Refreshing !
40. 2009-07-01 18:22  
Hahaha Jupiter, tsk tsk don't you go flattering my ego like this ... !!
Have you also read yveserwan's comments ? I love the way he writes and i appreciate every word he says...what a brain and what a culture to feed that brain... hope you enjoy his insights too, cos some people here obviously don't, nudge nudge wink wink hahaha
41. 2009-07-01 21:51  
lol, now you're the one who's flattering my ego Danu22btm ! my turn to tsk tsk you !
42. 2009-07-01 22:36  
'danu22btm' well, I wasnt flattering your ego, but if you like it... no problems ! It was more of an observation of how somebody so young ( and thats not a put-down on your age) can write so cutting edge and succintly to completely turn around some very negative hurtful comments.

Some writers (above) certainly have their right to their point of view, but I sometimes wonder why they make such comments, when they can be so hurtful and disparaging to some , when in actual fact those that they criticise are not hurting anybody.

Living in Australia I have never witnessed to a large extent ( a little maybe) the younger Asian man with older man scenario, and havent given it too much thought, but I feel if everything in the realtionship/affair is mutual, then my view is live and let live.
Who is anybody to judge ? Whats the point of it ?

Everbody has preferences, and to re-iterate what you (danu22btm) wrote, there is no legal or 'moral' law against it.

There are so many things in our community that need sensible logical and careful debate without having to dwell on the age differences in our relationships.

For the record, my great grandfather was 25 years older than my great grandmother, and they married and had many children, of which I am a descendant, and I am thankful that they fell in love.




43. 2009-07-03 15:35  
i thought the subject was "bruno" lol

but if you're talking about Thailand, then i will just add that on the other side of the coin, let's not forget that there are those, especially from the rural areas, both children and young men who are not "underaged", who are drawn or pushed into the world of "love"-for-sale by poverty. some of these faceless kids are still dying of Aids, not aid.

perhaps there are true love stories that cover a multitude of sins in Bangkok, and there may be cases where the prey turns predator, but i don't know of any places in the West where so many young boys or men of little education and sophistication, have had to sell their bodies, and at times their dignity, for a few US dollars....

it's easy to philosophise when you have so many choices...

(btw, while we're digressing, has anyone seen Radiohead's video on Youtube highlighting the exploitation of "child" labour in the apparel industry in the East? maybe they should do one on the sex trade...)
44. 2009-07-04 07:24  
My dear "oldfren"... you yourself do not "philosophize"... indeed it's more like preaching... the word "sin" in particular tends to ring in my ears like nails on a chalkboard...

The problem is that, generous and concerned as you may sound (and I'm sure you are), the picture you are painting of Thailand's gay sex scene is simply not real. It's the picture that the boys you meet there will repeatedly sing in your ears, for the obvious reason that your compassion and sense of guilt are directly related to your potential generosity.

It's the picture that both “seller” and “buyer” like to convey, not because it's true but because it suits them and eases their guilt (in that order). How many times have I heard the sex tourists conscientiously repeat this legend and explain how happy they are to "help" those boys send money back to their families, repair the house, buy a new buffalo, pay for their university, their Mum in hospital etc.
99% of the time, a big pack of lies.
Expats who've been living in Thailand for a long time, and many of my Thai friends too, all joke about it because they’ve heard it all, they know the real picture and don't buy the "I come from poor family" routine like gullible temporary tourists do.

A few guys may be "drawn to the world of love-for-sale by poverty" (especially those from the Northern hill tribes) but anyone who knows the scene there will tell you that they are a precious few (except in Chiang Mai). Most of the boys in Pattaya, Bangkok, Phuket etc come from Esarn (the Northeast) and from families which are indeed not rich, but helloooo, we are not AT ALL talking about poverty such as the one that can be met in the suburbs of Mumbai, Jakarta or Dacca.

Where girls are concerned it's a totally different story, because they are almost always pimped, which the boys are NOT.
45. 2009-07-04 15:09  
thank you for enlightening us further, "yveserwan".
i think that's the first benefit, if any, of a forum like this - it's not personal, it's not to "win" arguments, it's not about ego, it's to learn something which might help us to understand each other and the world better. but in the end, what we believe, we have to decide ourselves.
you're right about at least one thing, sir - i am no philosopher.. :)
cheers!
46. 2009-07-04 16:21  
Actually, I guess my main problem with this guy is that I don't find him particularly funny. Some of his "humour" seems to be painfully contrived.

He reminds me of a guy who walks into a public square, drops his pants and takes a dump, then looks around to see who is laughing. "Hello! Funny, funny, funny. No? You didn't find it funny? Wait, wait, I have big fart coming". Then he farts loud and long and splatters more stuff around. "Okay, funny now? hehe, see, so funny. You want more funny? I give you more funny. See, different colour, different smell, just for you. Funny, funny. hahaha. Wait, wait, I do on this nice potted plant. Funny now? Yes, yes. hahaha. Hey, nice doggie there. Bring that doggie. I do on doggie... like this... funny, funny. hahaha".

His "Ali G" interviews look truly pathetic, and not the least bit funny. The people being interviewed didn't find it even remotely funny, either, and at least one person, including Donald Trump, simply got up and walked away, showing contempt in their faces while saying goodbye.

Usually, you call someone dumb if he asks dumb questions. But this guy belongs to a different category of dumbness: He is so dumb that he often doesn't even have any dumb questions to ask. Have you noticed the long bits of awkward silence while he is floundering around racking his "brains" for more dumb questions? Of course, he cleverly edits his bits to shorten those awkward pauses, making the pictures rotate around, etc., just to give the feeling that a lot is happening.

Let me anticipate the indignation of those who would think this guy is funny, and put to them this situation:

Let's say you're in hospital, and the doctor has just asked you to put your head back, close your eyes, open your mouth wide and say "aaaah". You say "aaah", and the next thing you know, the nurse has pooped in your open mouth.

Would you find that funny? This guy probably would (he'd probably be the pooper, in fact).
47. 2009-07-04 17:45  
hum... ok, so you don't like Cohen's approach to humour in his movies (in real life he may be totally different, no way to know), and because you don't like it you say : "it's not funny".
I know we all do that all the time. If we don't like onion soup, we say "onion soup is disgusting". If we don't understand Picasso we say it's ugly. If we don't appreciate J.-S. Bach we say its boring...
But the fact that we do it all the time doesn't make it right. It's no big deal, it's just another of those semantic twists that make us look at things the way they are... not.
As I wrote earlier, Cohen mode of humour is the farce, it's as old as can be, and it's always had its fans and its detractors. Obiously Donald Trump doesn't like farce, well, good for him, but the fact that he's Trump doesn't make his taste heavier or more important, it's just his. And yours is yours... :-)
48. 2009-07-06 11:45  
MyManFriday, like the child of the Andersen fairy tale, has more or less hit the nail on the head for me...
what i suppose was "funny" in Borat was the ignorance of the poor people he "duped". and it will be the prejudices - racial, sexual, philosophical, etc - of the world, that will give us cause to chuckle in Bruno i suspect. i'm not paying money to see that.
however, i suppose everyone, whether priest, politician, philosopher or comedian, has a right to "preach"... whether we take it in or not, and what we believe is right or wrong, is up to us, individually, to decide. that is a personal responsibilty.
my own grandfather, who loved and married a woman much younger than himself, will, i'm sure, agree, "jupiter101" :)
btw, haha, i digress further... do u know that C S Lewis, who wrote the Narnia chronicles, and became a Christian in mid-life, was by profession a professor at Cambridge University in England? He taught greek mythology and... philosophy!
:)
49. 2009-07-13 21:45  
I like Baron-Cohen; this guy's gt a whole lot more spunk AND guts than all fridae members put together. American gays should take note...if you cld only possess half his bravery, insteed of unnecessarily bitching & picking on others, you'll have no need for clowns like GLAAD & Perez Hilton to fight yr battles for ya...
THEY are the ones who're reinforcing the gay stereotype, not Bruno.
50. 2009-07-27 06:39  
And please, it's not just the redneck/nouveau Americans who are portrayed as shallow. Shallow exists all over the world; try Singapore, Malaysia, HK..etc. At least in the US, it's in your face, no pretensions. Go figure.

51. 2009-07-27 20:47  
Saw this (adult cut). Cringed a lot, laughed more, till had tears. The funniest bits likely to be cut in places like Singapore.
52. 2009-09-21 02:27  
i've watched it, but i think Borat is funnier hehe~~
love SBC, so talented and minutious~~
53. 2009-10-04 16:55  
I have seen "Bruno" in its uncut version.
Nothing to brag about: the film is insipid and vulgar and most unfortunately very mediocre. As for the laughs this film brought out
of me, I can count them on less than my five fingers (the other hand was tired of showing me my watch and counting the running time left!)
If you like slapsticks thick as a buffulo hide, go and see it.

An exellent gay fim, I recommend in exchange for this toilet-comedy is : "Were the world mine" with the stunning Tanner Cohen.

JPS
Comment #54 was deleted by its author on 2009-10-04 16:56
55. 2010-01-02 11:27  
hahaha i totally agree with 33longchamp! though i didnt watch this stupid movie as i chose not, the description and this bruno is so stupid soi didnt want to watch it at all, and personally think he is offensive to gay so i wont support him~ he doesnt dersevers to receive any reputation or money by using GAY as his symbol which he is not~~

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