Fridae

Perhaps @botwildfck meant sirri marriage? Then surely it's no different than in Indonesia or any other moslem country.

I do not read Chinese well and cannot translate that notice. Sadly it seems it is an anti-homosexual treatise rather than one specifically related to HIV/AIDS. Back in history China used to be a far more tolerant society for gay/bisexual men, at least where the rulers were concerned. In his book "A Hidden Love: Arts and Homosexuality", Dominique Fernandez makes many interesting observations about sex in China. It had, he claims, "a glorious erotic culture, largely but by no means heterosexual". Emperor Ai Ti of cut sleeve fame and Long Yang now best known through the Long Yang clubs in a few parts of the world are but two historically gay figures. In the Liu-Song dynasty, 15-year old Liu Ziye became famous for his orgies with men and eunuchs who served at the Court. Just before the missionaries began arriving in their droves and started importing their strict (surface only) Victorian England morality, the book "Passions of the Cut Sleeve" outlined the fifty most famous cases of love between men in China. Equally sadly, after the high watermark of the Ming dynasty, everything was gradually changing under the Qing and the western invaders. But even as the nonsense as posted in that school continues, present-day China has to do a lot more to face up to the HIV/AIDS epidemic and the fact that it is not a gay disease. It also has to face up to the fact that it has around 50 million more young men than women. But that's another story.

Another weird post from @botwildfck! Where do you find that information that you can marry in Malaysia without Government or other official authority? Because it is pure rubbish! Get your facts straiught! Malaysia is not like Thailand where unofficial second wives are part of the culture for many older Thais.

in Malaysia, many men married women without agreement from Government or authority. The good purpose of this kind of marriage is to avoid Zina and to avoid bad things for the couple. so, everybody can do marriage without need agreement of government or authority by purpose of good intention.

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So, mission accomplished? The minister has been sacked. And I'm wondering if it's an actual "tape". I'm sure very few people still own a VCR.

Now why is it "so behind the times"? Have you been inside an overcrowded Indonesian prison. I really doubt it. I admit I have not, but I have read first hand accounts of what goes on there. They are not much different from those here in Thailand. Sex between males is extremely common. After all there are no females around so the pretty younger men and the gay boys and men are preyed upon by the hardened (sic) criminals and routinely raped in return for protection from others. Last I read the prison authorities do not hand out condoms or gels. So the spread of HIV becomes easy. I doubt if isolating gay prisoners will achieve much good though. There will still be routine rapes. But I do think quite a few of the gay guys will actually be quite happy that they are not going to be preyed upon and used as sex objects by the straight macho prisoners. As hylander says, it will be interesting to see how the experiment turns out.

@osongbosong: I read several times about you mentioning your gay-hating Filipino family and your being a Filipino-American, and am a bit curious about your situation. Where do you live currently? How is your relationship with your Filipino family?

Thanks for the history lesson, gunoilh2o. I cannot help but think there's something lost in translation. Would appreciate a Japanese speaker to give his/her take.

technically speaking, some "sexual diseases" can also transmit via other means, e.g. skin contact in the case of herpes. segregating the prisoners can surely have unexpected consequences, like easier discrimination for one. but i'm curious to see how this experiment goes.

that's just so NOT right, honey! definitely not right at all .. the only way you can ever transmit anything is thru sexual contact .. Indonesians are truly indeed very homophobic, and are just WAY WAY behind the times

I'm not sure that conclusion is always correct. I do not recall Estrada ever saying he was anti LGBT. It just happens he was the typical macho womanising Filipino. Furthermore, even before Thailand became a major gay destination Manila developed into virtually the gay capital of Asia in the 1970s and early 1980s during the dictatorship of Marcos. I know. I used to visit Manila quite regularly from wherever in Asia I was based. Clubs like Coco Banana and the very raunchy 690 Retiro Strip flourished. The Philippine Plaza Hotel owned by Imelda Marcos was basically gay central, packed at week-ends with foreigners and wealthier Filipinos and their 'boys du jour'. Male strip clubs opened and seemed to flourish. I do not recall any attempts by the regime to encourage this development. But equally I believe there were never raids or any attempt to discourage it.

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"Estrada was the first Asian leader to be impeached and convicted." Corrupt leaders always seem to want to distance themselves from the subject of homosexuality or they just dislike it all together, i would think that's generally the case .. but again, correct me if i am wrong on that

"If such a group were ever to emerge in The Philippines, having to face a homophobic President would make development extremely tough" yes, i would very much think that (most) filipino presidents and government leaders as a whole are homophobic .. correct me if i am wrong on that, but that seems to be the majority in that country

I am delighted we agree. As I said earlier, I believe any forward movement towards LGBT rights will have to come from below and not the top. It requires ordinary gay Filipinos to organise, gain support and lobby. That's how Taiwan's LGBT rights and equality have developed so relatively quickly. After all, when I first visited Taiwan it was still under martial law!! If such a group were ever to emerge in The Philippines, having to face a homophobic President would make development extremely tough.

"Manny Pacquiao is a homophobic individual." "Pacquiao has made it clear he wants to become President. The future for the LGBT movement in that country looks bleak." well i'm glad we're on the same page on this one, sir .. this is what i have been trying to stress in my posts, not just my gay hating family being a bunch of homophobes, but the Philippines itself does indeed still have a long ways to go in the acceptance of gays .. yes, it does look bleak for that country, and that's unfortunate .. i don't like Pacquiao's attitude towards gays, he does not approve of gay marriage either

Manny Pacquiao is a homophobic individual. He is also massively popular in The Philippines. Sadly the electorate loves celebrities - remember movie actor Joseph Estrada who was elected President? Estrada was the first Asian leader to be impeached and convicted. Pacquiao has made it clear he wants to become President. The future for the LGBT movement in that country looks bleak.