Fridae

You can do that in most countries. Even in Singapore 2 adult male can jointly buy a HDB leasehold flat and set up home. The only thing they don't like is 2 guys marrying each other and calling each other spouse ;) Maybe because heterosexual marriage are so delicate that, it will fall apart if gays are also allowed to get married.

At least China is moving forward: Baby Steps!!!!

But if I read this correctly, this is in no way specifically related to LGBT rights, correct? You can (or has always been able to) list any friend or relative as your legal guardian?

Try a poll amongst Thai people about acceptance of gay men and an LGBT lifestyle, @HappyWilly. As you will well know, the vast majority in this conservative country will be against it. It is one of the strange facts about living in Thailand. Many Thai families accept that their sons or daughters may be gay - I know one family where both son AND daughter are gay - but there is little general acceptance of gay men. Why are so few young professional men 'out'? For years I worked in Thailand and I know that full well that they are afraid of the effect on their colleagues but particularly on their diminished prospects of advancement within their companies. When Bangkok had its Gay Pride Parades, why did no ordinary Thai guys join in? Because they were organised by the commercial gay establishments and those marching were basically boys from the commercial gay establishments and flamboyant ladyboys! No non-commercial Thai gay men would go near the Parades. Attendance was so poor the event was cancelled more than a dozen years ago. Fact! Compare that with the huge annual Pride Marches in Taipei - 140,000 estimated attendance last year. These have always been organised by a committed group of gay citizens with no connection to any commercial gay establishment. In the many Taipei Marches I have attended, families and children always take part, and young and older Taiwanese are joined by participants from many Asian countries including Thailand. Yet these same Thais would never dare be seen taking part in a Gay Pride March in Bangkok!

The scholarly book "Male Colors -The Construction of Homosexuality in Tokugawa Japan" is a must read for context about Japanese cultural history and its openness to homosexuality for centuries.Tokugawa Japan ranks with ancient Athens as a society that not only tolerated, but celebrated, male homosexual behavior. Few scholars have seriously studied the subject, and until now none have satisfactorily explained the origins of the tradition or elucidated how its conventions reflected class structure and gender roles. Gary P. Leupp fills the gap with a dynamic examination of the origins and nature of the tradition. Based on a wealth of literary and historical documentation, this study places Tokugawa homosexuality in a global context, exploring its implications for contemporary debates on the historical construction of sexual desire. Combing through popular fiction, law codes, religious works, medical treatises, biographical material, and artistic treatments, Leupp traces the origins of pre-Tokugawa homosexual traditions among monks and samurai, then describes the emergence of homosexual practices among commoners in Tokugawa cities. He argues that it was "nurture" rather than "nature" that accounted for such conspicuous male/male sexuality and that bisexuality was more prevalent than homosexuality. Detailed, thorough, and very readable, this study is the first in English or Japanese to address so comprehensively one of the most complex and intriguing aspects of Japanese history.

It is wonderful to see more and more acceptance in the world! Yeah!

How often have you been to Japan. HappyWilly? I guess not very often. For it you had, you would not make such seemingly absurd statements. Do you really know how gay mean and women are treated in Japan?According to Reuter's one activist claimed this; "“This bill won’t amount to anything and may actually make things worse for us. We are a culture where people are turned off by conflict and place a high value on harmony.” Nothing much will happen in Japan until the older generations (who have a habit of living longer than in most other nations) die off and the younger generations start taking over the reins of power. Look 40 years down the line and you will see progress.

You'd better wait a long time! Don't you live in Thailand? If so, you will be perfectly well aware that transgender people have been accepted as part of Thai society since the 14th century. This took a dip after Thailand adopted western ways in the 1930s but rose again following World War 2. Now there are katoey all over the country. If this were not acceptable culturally, it is surely hardly likely that the huge majority of 90.15% of those polled said they would be happy to have one as a friend or colleague at work. To draw from this an inference that legalising sex marriage will follow is pie in the sky!

Now on the legalizing same sex marriage!

@obongbong - "that photo you post of you playing with a child's toy, sitting on one, etc. might give the wrong impression to someone else and might be subject to some misinterpretation to others .. but of course, you'll just ridicule and shitterize my comments to an abundance, because remember sir, you're a bitch :) I did not think you would change your tune. Always, yes always, you have to resort to filthy epithets because you know I am right. I do genuinely feel sorry for you. As for your comments about my photograph, that merely shows what a dirty one-track mind you have in your little, walled-in closet. Yes, sorry indeed!

@obongbong - You will be relieved. I'll keep this short. You say - " it's not fair and it's not right". And that, sir, is at the root your particular problem. You have a monstrous chip on your shoulder. You expect everyone to be like you and you resent those who actually enjoy their lives as gay men, their freedom to express themselves as gay men, their interaction with other gay men, their views on life as gay men. You cannot do that. And you totally fail to comprehend that the reason you cannot do that is purely because of hate. Period!

"You cannot even see a joke when it stares you in your face. That photo you refer to was taken by my boyfriend as a joke - sorry, I know that will make you feel jealous because you are in a locked closet of your own making and do not have a boyfriend who likes to take jokes." for someone who's so humourous and loves to joke so much, your comments seem awfully rash and aggressive at times .. i don't think that sounds "comedic" whatsoever, and honestly, i don't give a fuck really what your personality is (like i really wanna know anyways?), i don't care, sir .. that photo you post of you playing with a child's toy, sitting on one, etc. might give the wrong impression to someone else and might be subject to some misinterpretation to others .. but of course, you'll just ridicule and shitterize my comments to an abundance, because remember sir, you're a bitch :)

"I also accept that some people feel they have to stay in the closet for a variety of reasons. I have no issue with that." yes sir, you definitely issues with it, especially when i discuss about being in the closet, don't deny and lie about that "They eventually realised they were basically gay, discussed it with their wives and all came to amicable divorces. I recently had dinner with one friend along with his present boyfriend and his two grown up daughters. Everyone got on famously." you always seem to think that everything is on the up-side and everything is so Mary Poppins-like in the gay world, well it's not .. please take note that there are still SOME people who are not ready to come out, and who are NOT ready to accept gays or homosexuality all together, this is what i have been arguing about all along .. it's not fair and it's not right that there were still people (hence my entire family) that think like this .. yet you sir, turn a blind eye to the whole thing and just flat out ridicule my comments and reasoning .. Filipinos are not ready to wholly accept their gays in their country, why do you think there is a movie with Eddie Garcia out with an elderly man who's still married to his wife yet cheats on the side with a man? there are marriages like this in the Philippines, otherwise they would not show it in a movie, whether it is fiction or not .. now don't you think this kind of a sham marriage is wrong, sir? but now, you just like to pepper it with your Mary Poppins-like justifications and logic .. that's you indeed sir, the old timer using that "Mary Poppins logic" with some bitchery thrown in for good measure to make and state his case .. it is NOT all happy go lucky in the gay world, sir, please remember that some Asian countries still don't understand homosexuality well "Being in the closet is a choice. Due to circumstances such as family (where someone might already have a spouse before fully realizing his sexual orientation, for example), society's acceptance, career consideration, or other factors, which might even include safety over one's life, people might decide to stay in the closet. It does not have to mean they are close minded, inward-looking, frustrated, or unfulfilled." in a rare case, i'll also side with hylander on this one, because he does agree with some of the things i've tried to explain and discuss, unlike some people on here who just turn a blind eye to everything and use their "Mary Poppins logic" and ridicule one's reasoning .. especially in Indonesia where being gay is actually ostracized .. and the part about family is so true especially in the Philippines, though there are some exceptions as i do know of an older caucasian guy friend who is married to a younger Filipino man, he is divorced too, but again, this is one of those exceptions .. and he is definitely right in that just because you're in the closet does not always mean you are "close minded, inward-looking, frustrated, or unfulfilled", i am not closed minded (my family however is), in some cases it's not always a choice, if you know your family will disown you and disregard you, sometimes you have to keep things private, sometimes you do need to keep your private life just that, private .. everyone has a right to their own privacy .. but of course, we know that mr. "gun-guns" is just WAY WAY too open and open minded for those things, right? nothing is ever private in his life, i'm sure even all his skeletons are out of the closet walking dead somewhere else

This happens to be one of @obongbong's comments from an earlier thread relating to The Philippines - "why bother with someone's personal affairs or their business when your country is so fucked up to begin with? that's how Filipino handle things, with gossip, chismis, talk talk talk, but never do the walk walk walk." Well, obongbong himself does not "walk walk walk" - he only "talks talks talks". Unless he is prepared to walk he has no right to get away with such stupid comments.

@hylander - I actually agree with you, but only up to a point. I know four men of roughly my age who were all married with at least two children each. One was Austrian, one British, one American and one Australian. They eventually realised they were basically gay, discussed it with their wives and all came to amicable divorces. I recently had dinner with one friend along with his present boyfriend and his two grown up daughters. Everyone got on famously. I also accept that some people feel they have to stay in the closet for a variety of reasons. I have no issue with that. It took me until my 30s to come out. What I totally object to is someone in his 40s or 50s attacking Asian countries for their "stone-age" attitudes to gay men and gay liberation when they themselves are firmly locked in their own closet. And especially, when they have no personal experience of those countries because they have never even visited them! You surely have to agree that @obongong's comments on Cambodia and gays in Singapore were utterly disgraceful. In my view, people who elect to live in the closet have no right to comment on other people and other countries when it comes to gay issues. Before I moved to Asia I lived as a gay man without my family being aware of it. My country was extremely conservative at that time. @obongbong lives in the United States in one of its most liberal states. If he elects at his age to continue living in a closet of his own making, he is perfectly entitled to do so. But anyone who does not mix with gay men and in fact deliberately avoids them, has no right to comment on gay issues. No matter how brilliant they may be in other aspects of their lives, when it comes to gay issues I am sorry if it upsets you but I consider they are close minded and inward looking.

@gunoilh2o "Those locked in the closet are generally inward looking, narrow minded, frustrated and unfulfilled." Now I'll have to disagree with you and side with @osongbosong here. Being in the closet is a choice. Due to circumstances such as family (where someone might already have a spouse before fully realizing his sexual orientation, for example), society's acceptance, career consideration, or other factors, which might even include safety over one's life, people might decide to stay in the closet. It does not have to mean they are close minded, inward-looking, frustrated, or unfulfilled.

obongbong - can you actually read? I have told you that like all members of this forum you DO NOT HAVE TO READ ANY COMMENTS HERE. But of course, you know I am right, therefore masochistically you cannot tear yourself away from my postings. Oh la la! Someone cannot make up his mind. To refer to countries in Asia and the majority of their peoples as stone-age is a frightful, disgraceful and disgusting view. It is also a total lie! I am surprised you even elect to be a member of this site which is essentially to link Asians with their admirers in other parts of the world. If you think so little of Asians, what on this good earth makes you wish to be a member here - apart from continuously calling me "bitch"? Believe me! You can call me what you will. It will not stop me from commenting on utterly stupid and out of date comments. You cannot even see a joke when it stares you in your face. That photo you refer to was taken by my boyfriend as a joke - sorry, I know that will make you feel jealous because you are in a locked closet of your own making and do not have a boyfriend who likes to take jokes. You don't even have the courage to post any photo whatever in your profile - even if it is just of your feet. Frankly my photos do not faze me in the slightest. But your closeted mind sees the photo you refer to as something different, as probably all closet gays do. I happen to enjoy jokes. I happen also to enjoy my life. Start making sense when you post and I will happily agree with you. When you write nonsense, i will be there to pick up on it and call you out. You say you are trying to voice your opinions. Obongong, you only have one opinion! The Philippines is in the stone-age. OK, we get it! There is no need to keep repeating it ad infinitum, ad nauseam. This is a great world. Asia is a great continent. It is the continent that will rule the world as the west continues its decline. And as that happens, you will age and become more irritable and angry within the narrowing walls of your closet. If you actually opened the door and let yourself out into freedom, you might discover that i am actually right! PS: Oh! And yes. You did call gay people "fruity". Just look back at your postings. Don''t try to deny it. Oh well, since you probably won't even bother looking, I'll even quote it for you to save you the trouble - "these Singaporeans have the same problem .. i just don't get it, just because you're a fruity doesn't mean you lose your masculinity" What an idiotic comment!

"So childlike! Be a man obongbong!" says the man who has the nerve to post a pic of himself riding on a yellow frog or yellow child toy, or a yellow children's piggy back of a thang, in a playground or park, sir (in your 2nd profile pic, in case you didn't notice)? i mean, only CHILDREN are supposed to be riding on that yellow thang, if i'm not mistaken?? so childlike indeed, HONEY!

this is the primary reason why Filipino congress won't ever pass this, they always love to put religion and God above all things first .. again, it just doesn't sound good when you mix Filipino politics and the topic of homosexuality together in one bag

i still don't know why you bothered bringing in Marcos and his family into this discussion anyway, what (Ferdinand) Marcos did was put the entire Philippines into bloody chaos and turmoil .. Filipino politicians and gays is like mixing a bag of peanut butter and avocados .. they just don't mix well together in the first place