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13 May 2007

ah men! save the boyfriend, save the world

Jonathan Zhang returns this week with his column and in want of some advice about his boyfriend who is experiencing conflict between his religion and being gay.

The relationship between the boyfriend and I seem to thrive on ordeals. It's ironic, but ever since I've entered the boyfriend's life, I seem to have turned it upside down. His cat went missing just two weeks after we went steady. His grandmother got admitted into the hospital nearly two months after. And before I could get to know her better, she passed away a month later. I have to admit that it's the stuff you only see in those cheesy Korean dramas, but I'm glad that it adds some meaning to this relationship.

Still, I would like to look at all this from a 'trial by fire' point of view. After all, you know what they say: What doesn't kill you just makes you stronger. And I think it did strengthen this strange resolve in sticking with the boyfriend through the thick and the thin. I've never invested so much belief in anyone before that this ideology of confidence in someone surviving through these ordeals is almost foreign to me. I guess I'm still learning how to deal with all these adult issues that come hand-in-hand with growing up.

However, just when I thought the stormy seas have finally settled, fate has dealt me a tricky hand of cards once again. And frankly speaking, I don't know if I can survive this next ordeal.

All this began after the grandmother's death. For some reason, the love between the boyfriend and me has somewhat dissipated. Gone are the quaint little gifts from the exotic locales that his job takes him to. Similarly, the public displays of affection are a rarity these days. Text messages with random declarations of love can be listed together with the endangered species. The days of mushy text messages seeping with dirty puns are just not happening anymore. Even 'physical activities' that bring to mind words like 'seeping' and 'dirty' are a thing of the past.

Dry spells aside, I think this is what everybody means when they say that 'The Honeymoon Period Is Over'. Which is what got me really worried. Is this all there is to a gay relationship, meeting up once a week over dinner and movies, just to update each other with the on-goings in our lives? The occasional gathering with his clueless acquaintances, with me assuming the all-too-familiar role of 'the best friend'? From the looks of it, the boyfriend is fast downgrading from life partner, to simply a good friend whom I meet on a regular basis.

So, like the concerned partner that I'm supposed to be, I sat the both of us down one evening after dinner to have 'the talk'. I figured that this whole thing was going to be tricky, which is why I intentionally picked a smoking area outside Raffles City which was somewhat secluded. I thought that with the cigarette by my side, I could perhaps come up with something tactful to broach this whole topic with. Besides, I've never had much prior experience initiating 'the talk', preferring to just let sex resolve most problems.

We had some idle chitchat about our working lives and just carried on updating each other on the course of our lives. And just when I couldn't take it anymore, I blurted it out:

"You seem very distant lately. Is there something wrong? Because if you're not interested in this relationship I think we should move on and not waste any of each other's time."

There. I said it. A bit abrupt and rather brash, but I guess it got the important message across to the boyfriend. I was expecting some sort of defensive reply from the boyfriend, citing work commitments and the like. But all I got were several minutes of awkward silence and the lighter trying to ignite against the strong tropical wind. And that was when the boyfriend stated sobbing. I was freaking out. Crying people? Not my forte. What more then, a crying person in the public setting?

I panicked. Many things raced through my mind: Do I touch the boyfriend to comfort him? Do I tell him in the most tactful way that it's a public place and he needs to stop crying? Why should I be embarrassed when someone is expressing grief in a public place? What should I say that would help the situation? Do I offer a tissue or my handkerchief? On hindsight, I didn't know if this was a good move, but I offered my somewhat snot-stained handkerchief. I had the flu earlier that day, you see.

In between sobs, the boyfriend started explaining how the passing of the grandmother affected him greatly. 'Tis true that death has this tendency to set one's priorities straight. And in the gay context, I mean literally STRAIGHT. Suddenly, the worldly pursuits and carnal delights seem so minute compared to the after life. For the boyfriend, it was kind of like a wake-up call, to see the real world and its realities, sans the fashionable rose-tinted glasses. To put it clearly, the boyfriend was experiencing a conflict between Islam and his being gay.

Deep down inside, I knew I could trump loss, break-ups or even death anytime. But to battle against a greater force that has been tried and tested over a gazillion years, the boyfriend's conflict is something that's beyond my capabilities. Truth be told, I have absolutely no idea how to go about to resolve an issue like that, falling short of a compromise between both parties. I suggested that to him. But he was rather adamant about the fact that there was no such thing as compromise when it came to religion. And I know I'm in no position to preach about finding the middle ground in one's faith. I gave up mine so that I could be the happy homosexual that I am today.

The evening ended abruptly with the boyfriend excusing himself to go home, albeit with somewhat puffy eyes. It's time like these that I wish I could do something more than just smoke a cigarette or offer an unhygienic handkerchief for the crying loved one. How many times have we wished that we weren't so powerless when it comes to problems like these?

I wish I had superhuman powers like them ordinary people on Heroes. I wish I had the ability to read the boyfriend's mind so that I could find the rights words to say. Or the ability to fly so that I could accompany the boyfriend on his air stewarding job. Or even better, the ability to bend the space-time continuum so that I can prevent the grandmother from dying that early. Alas, I'm just the ordinary gay person who contributes a column to a gay web portal.

So here I am, writing away for Fridae, hoping to get some advice and perhaps, solutions to the boyfriend's moral dilemma. I guess at the end of the day, it's still the effort that counts.

Jonathan Zhang, 22, has been gay for eight years and a nurse for four. You can read the combined average of the above in his blog at www.spankthemalenurse.blogspot.com. Ah Men! will be updated every other Sunday.

Reader's Comments

1. 2007-05-13 03:54  
Since religion by its very nature is totally illogical, there is probably no way that Jonathan Zhang can deal with his boyfirend's crisis. Death, especially within the family, does tend to bring weird thoughts and reactions to the surface, but it is clear that the bf hasn't yet really come to terms with his being gay. I advise Mr Zhang to cut his losses and to look for someone who has accepted his gayness so thoroughly that relgion cna't interefer with his head! I also wish him the strength to do this!
2. 2007-05-13 04:08  
As I predicted Jonathan's writing gets better and we must cheer him on. One thing Nurse you must get your prepositional cases right...between the boyfriend and ME please, thank you.

Now to the substance; I bet many a person reading these pages has bumped into a conflict between the boyfriend and the boyfriend's faith mostly Islam or branches of Christianity. Chances are that Gran told him once or a thousand times that before she dies she wants to see him settling down with a nice girl, not a slut like you Jonathan just joking there Jono she wanted a girl with a front vagina and the ability to make babies and get married in front of a khadi.

This isn't going to happen of course, but try telling that to a Malay family....they might even forgive a few individual acts of man man main main but they want it all to cease in favour of the halal relationship.

If you really love him then tell him how much you love him. He knows deep down he cannot change his nature. And tell him that you love him so much that you will wait for him to go through his mourning for his grandmother and to come out with the realisation that God does many wonderful things for us all but He does not change the way He made us....being gay is His work and His wonderful mission to at least ten percent of us.
We will all accept it one day, and even reconcile it with our faith in our own funny ways.

If you give up eating pork and be at least a little supportive to him as a moderate Muslim I think you will find that he will greatly appreciate it. Hard as nails as you may be, you must be respectful to his culture for it is a part of him you will never delete.Good luck.
3. 2007-05-13 05:27  
True love is not about "cutting losses". If you love him, face these issues together with him instead of the "Islam or me" threat. Even if he doesn't choose you at the end, at least he knows how much you love him. And you won't have to look back and ask yourself whether or not you did your best and gave it your best shot.

As a woman, I do not wish your boyfriend to suppress his gayness, marry a woman and then go around having affairs with men behind her back while she happily makes babies for him (Other than Jack and Ennis, don't anyone pity their clueless wives in Brokeback Mountain?). He most probably might do that once his duties towards his religion have been accomplished. Am I imagining too much? Maybe, but you can't say this scenario is impossible.

The world may be unfair, but no one should make their lives and others worse than an epic soap opera.
Comment #4 was deleted by its author
5. 2007-05-13 05:45  
WHY GAY AND LES ON AVERAGE SMOKE MORE THAN NORMAL PEOPLE..........
THEY ARE KNOWN FOR SMOKERS......
6. 2007-05-13 05:47  
it's totally illogical alright... they might as well make fleeting laws like it's a sin to be blonde... or if you have green eyes you are the child of the devil and if u are dark skin u are a heretic. Actually I'm not surprise if certain cultures actually believe such things.
7. 2007-05-13 07:23  
I totally feel you man....
Comment #8 was deleted by its author
9. 2007-05-13 08:05  
The lost butterfly ...

Do you remember when,

Many seasons ago,
Amidst the spring breeze,
The warmth of the sunshine,

You was the dancing zesty butterfly ah,
Amidst the flower booms,
The sweet scent of lavender,

Yet this poor butterfly,
Caught in the intrigues of man,
Gathers gloom, disillusioned,

What is gained in pursuit,
Does it compensate what is lost?

What is attained in bliss,
Does not come in pursuit, nor struggle, nor fighting,

But in tranquility,
in being at peace at oneself,
In contentment,in forgiveness,

In being that zesty dancing butterfly,
That you once were,

Hard indeed, for one to ever experience the intrigues of man,
And yet see the bright side of all life,

For it is such folks,
Who can truly light up this gloomy world many folds ...

Whoever can understand this,
No matter where they are, who they are,
Happiness will always cling to them,

For they will always be amidst the dancing butterflies in the winds,
The blooming flowers,
the gentle spring breeze last spring ...

Bunny the Zoologist Up ..
10. 2007-05-13 08:06  
For all heartburnt patients in the world..

Let it go ba...
There is nothing left for u le...
Only scattered leaves in the autumn winds..

Let him go ba...
If its not u he truly love,
Cling to him no more...

Let memories go ba...
If they bring u only pain,..
Shelve them all in a forgotten place in ur
heart...

When u at long last regain ur footing,
And finally be able to face love again,
U will regain all u have lost and much
more...

Its not all darkness my dear frens...
For hope is eternal in faith and
compassion...
Hurry along and learn from this lesson in
life...

Emerging stronger and braver..
Like a butterfly emerging from the
cocoon..
And finally sees its beautiful reflection
on the water puddle...

From: Dr Pek
Heart specialist
(No license one..)

Comment #11 was deleted by its author
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Comment #13 was deleted by its author
14. 2007-05-13 08:41  
Any religion that points a finger at homosexuality will create instability and eventually disability on the self and identity of being a gay. A person must sort out his feelings and thoughts first as this will have an impact on a gay relationship. If a person is not comfortable with his 'self' as a gay, psychosocial problem will surface.

Now, if a person is able to sort out his gay self, the battle is not won yet. There is another hurdle if the holy book tells you not to mix with other non-believers of your faith.

Recently, I met a Christian and when he knows that I a Buddhist, he will quote a scripture in the Bible which says, "not to be unequally yoke"....He prefers to have a Christian bf so that they can attend church together. Isn't it crazy? Life is short but we complicate with more obstacles.

Amen
Comment #15 was deleted by its author
Comment #16 was deleted by its author
17. 2007-05-13 08:45  
Hmm follow ur heart. Know the consequence. Face the out come with courage and never regret the choice u make.
18. 2007-05-13 09:07  
What a coincidence. This week on Monday, my bf and I split, because I decide to go towards a more religious way of life.

We have been together for 8 years and 7 months now.

Anyway it was not well received and I wont go into it.

For the past few months, I do have this desire to move on. But I could not as I love my bf so much. However the calling was becoming stronger and stronger each day. I believe my bf definitely knows about it as sometimes I give silly excuses just to avoid sex.

When it finally happens, It was truly unexpected and I was feeling down about it.
However, God's grace is great, I felt that a heavy burden has been lifted off my chest.

Truly I am still the same person. I am gay, I still have that feeling for men but not as crazy as before. I learnt to suppress the thought and I hope I will be guided in this very difficult moment.

A muslim has to abide by the five pillars of Islam. They are

1. To acknowledge the syahada - the acknowledgement that there is only One God and Muhammad is his Messenger
2. To pray 5 times a day
3. To fast for a month during the month of Ramadan
4. To pay the obligatory alms (zakat)
5. To make the pilgrimage to the holy city if one can afford it.


Anyway back to my case now, I seek help from Mom, who I believe found her calling 15 years ago. Living in poverty (my dad never works) and my mom had to work to bring us up, she turn to the Holy Qur'an for solace. She read and re read and understand the Holy Book in a manner that none of us could. Just for your info she is not an educated lady.

Thank God for his Grace, we are far far much better off now.

On homosexuality, she recounts the story of Lut (he is known as Lot in the bible)
And she came to this conclusion and she tells me this :

"you may be gay coz that is how you feel. When you love another man, question this my son, Is it because of his looks? His body? Or YOUR lust? Coz if it is because of this 3 my dear, do repent coz that will lead you to do something else and I am very afraid it will go against the natural order of things. However if you love him for who he is and you dare not tell him about it because for your love and faith to God that is in you heart, truly you are a winner at the end of the day and hopefully God will compensate you for this defect that you are having now for that love is unfulfilled and in that act of selflessness for Him, you will live and lived well."

It got me pondered. Truly I believe she speaks the truth and in that I was much much happier. I am currently embracing myself more nowadays and Only close friends knows about it.

Yes some of you may say it is only a few days but I would like to tell you that these few days has never been the same compare to the years of days that I used to have.


To Jonathan, I hope you would slowly guide your bf to his desired path. Only with your blessing and support he is able to let go.

He needs you at this hour of need coz he is feeling guilty about the whole thing. But what you can do is to give that bit of compassion and I am sure he will remember you for life.

In any case, I welcome any queries that you might have, feel free to msg me.

Regards
Edz
19. 2007-05-13 09:37  
My heart tells me that living in a moment of love is better than a moment of fake lies. It is love that makes heaven. I'm a free thinker. I really not sure what will happen in afterlife. I'd rather believe in something that I can feel and experience now.

If love does not lead us to heaven, will fake lies do?
Comment #20 was deleted by its author
21. 2007-05-13 10:26  
Well...life is about making choices and do not regret after making them. Your boyfriend has to know that if he wants to remain a strong muslim then he has to make the cut in gay world. Be straight and live on with his religion. However, if he wants to be gay, then he has to bend the rules in his life. He must have a attitude of "Ya, i am gay and yes i am a muslim, so what?" Even straight people cannot obey all the laws in any religion perfectly. Else there wont be a saying,:"no one is perfect." So no matter whether u are gay or straight u will never attain that perfect state. So how then. To be gay muslim or not be gay muslim. Simple, just be urself. Choose ur path in life wisely and dun regret choosing it. I am a christian and i choose to be gay. Do i forsake my religion? no. Do i leave church activities? no. Then how do i cope with it all. Simple. I pray to Gog and tell him how sure i am that i am gay and said that it is wat i chose. I will still continue to obey ur laws except this single ones. I always upgrade myself to be the christian that u wan me to be and yet still be gay. And at the end of the day, he will weight me in the scale and prove me worthy of heaven or hell. And i am confident that all the goods that i hav done will surely compensate the gay life i lived. But if He still wan to send me straigh to hell..so be it. I reflect back what i have done, being faithful and loyal, doesnt cheat or lies and always keep myself in the light while in gay life. And also...I DUN SMOKE :p so...i live this life gracefully and without regrets. I think ur lover should do that. Except for the non-smoking part.
22. 2007-05-13 11:29  
It is possible to be religious and gay - a lot of gay people only see the intolerant side of religion. But there are always differring interpretations of the holy books.

If you google 'gay muslim' there are lots of discussions and support groups on this topic, for example: http://www.imaan.org.uk/ .

Religion is not incompatible with homosexuality.

It is our own minds which constrict and bind us.

23. 2007-05-13 11:45  
If god is supposed to love everyone, tall, fat, thin short and other assorted shapes,oreintations and believes, I don't see why we whould reproach ourselves with this question.

Maybe you think I am looking at this from the easy side, maybe I did.

Having to love someone regardless of religions and sexes, is not a sin. It should be the greatest gift bestowed on yourself that you are able to love someone back!
24. 2007-05-13 12:18  
Jonathan: I am a gay Muslim who went through the same conflict as your BF and came out having found a happy balance and now am able to be gay and faithful without problem. During a Master's course in Islamic Studies I discovered that the Islamic sources (the Qur'an and the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon Him) actually say NOTHING on the topic of homosexuality, and it is human misinterpretation, combined with ignorance and dependence on others to interpret for them, along with social and cultural prejudices which act as negative filters for information, that make so many Muslims inaccurately believe that Islam forbids homosexuality and deems it sinful. Yey if this were true then the Prophet Muhammad pbuH would have discussed it during His life. He did not. The Qur'an would discuss it in clear terms. It does not. The passage about Prophet Lut/Lot has nothing to do with homosexuality. This is a common misinterpretation which even many gays seem to believe. And there are no hadith sahih (authenticated sayings of the Prophet Muhammad pbuH) on the topic of hoimosexuality.

Therefore, it is not "against Islam" for your BF to be in a loving gay relationship with you, Jonathan.

If he continues to be in conflict, stick with him, support and reassure him. He is likely to go through a stage where he wants to be heterosexual, marry a woman, etc. And he is likely to go through a stage where he feels he wants to reject Islam. These are quite typical reactions. I went through both myself in my 20s. If he wants to discuss with someone who does not claim to be an expert but who has researched this topic very deeply, and can discuss it in English, Malay or Arabic, have your BF contact me here on fridae.
25. 2007-05-13 12:26  
As strong as his religious convictions are, he needs to develop an equally strong conviction in the rightness of a man to love another man. Religious institutions and the individuals who represent them have made mistakes in the past, and will continue to do so. Yes, they've been right about many things, but know, from the core of your being, that in this one thing, they got it wrong. There need be no guilt and no fear of retribution.
Comment #26 was deleted by its author
27. 2007-05-13 14:22  
Dear Caesar2003,
I like your analogy of oil and water with religion and homosexuality....Cool!

To liken homosexuality to water is so fluid and religion to oil is so messy
28. 2007-05-13 16:53  
EDITORS OF FRIDAE-GET YOUR FACTS "STRAIGHT"!
You are always saying that someone has been gay for ..."_____ years" i.e.-Nathan Zhang, 22, has been gay for eight years...
Have you been hiding in a closet for the past 20 years?
It is a proven and established fact that gay people are born gay-it didn't just happen one day!
No wonder gay people remain confused when even a high-profile gay website can't even admit that this is our orientation from birth...
I think it's about time I resigned my membership here.
It's really pathetic how this staff thinks. How old are you? 145?

Kudos to Nathan Zhang for confronting the bf.
And, also kudos to him for leaving his own religion that obviously supported homophobic ideals.

Organized religion is man-made, not God-made. Organized religion's primary intent is to control people through guilt and self-hatred via a set of rules only Hitler or an S & M master would dream of.
Islam, Christianity and Hindu all damn gay people as well as women, children and others.

If a person is spiritual, then he or she has a direct connection with his higher power-no need for the man-made intercession by some idiot with a robe and a 4ooo year old set of rules fit for shit.

Nathan is lucky to be rid of the Islamic bf. Of all the religions, that is the most negative against gays, women and equal rights. The ex-bf deserves every bit of pain he is about to put himself through.
I have no respect for these types of religious beliefs.
Gay people need to seek out positive spiritual reinforcement, including each other as support, not homophobic sub-species of religious ideals...
29. 2007-05-13 16:55  
I would like to point out something I found.
This was a translation by Haji Oemar Bakry - Indonesia in his Tafsir AlQuran (translation)
Al Qur'an Chapter 21 - Al Anbiyaa (Nabi Nabi)The prophets
Verse 74
and to Luth We gave guidance and and We shield him from the land whose people does immoral acts (homoseks)

its the act of it..which i emphasised..so truly he has to draw the clear line..

Oh well to each his own opinion.i stick to mine..
30. 2007-05-13 17:36  
Johnathan, faith is one of those things that's deeply personal. My advice would be to tell your bf that you love him and that you want to be with me. If he can't honestly say that back to you then maybe you need to find someone who can. Give him time, but don't let yourself waste away. It's easy enough for you to tell him the truth: that all the religion in the world won't stop him liking guys, and if he can't reconcile that he's going to carry a weight of guilt around forever. He needs to reach his own conclusions, if you push too hard there's a chance he may end up resenting you. Most of us here have tried to deny what we are at one time or another, growing up gay is never easier, I'm sure it's even more difficult to grow up in a religious family and be gay.
I hope that your boyfriend is able to make the right decision before he loses you and everything you've built together. If he doesn't then it's his loss. The expererience might be painful, but it will make you stronger.
I was fortunate to grow up in an environment without such a stricty religious viewpoint, but I try to maintain a respect for those who see things differently.

All the best.
31. 2007-05-13 17:50  
hi

I do agree in part with what makethebest has mentioned, sometimes we just gotta be a bit more careful with our remarks.

And yes, uness you can live happily and (harmoniously with others) as a free thinker, an atheist or a yoist whatever. When a homosexual needs spiritual support, often it can be vey distresssing for him if his religion is of those...well you should know. So just gotta seek out positive spiritual reinforcement, that emphasizes equality, respect, human dignity and ability, not homophobic sub-species of religious ideals.

I'm happy enough to stick on to my religion/ belief. It is by far most gay-friendly as we know, perhaps due to its ideas of self-reliance, a thinking phylosophical system that's for human evolved/ civilized behaviours.
32. 2007-05-13 17:58  
Religion does play a part in screwing up one's gay life sometimes. Ok, make that MOST of the time. But its really up to that individual to weigh te good and bad, the right and wrong. But, most of all, if you guys are till together, whether as a couple or just very good friend, take the time to sit down (again), and give it a little discussion. The involvement of religion is somewhat sensitive to certain people and it take greater effort to make the broken, with some tender fixin', work. I've tried this, but it was seriously a dreadful process, but hey, it worked evntually. Just be tactical when you use your words. Good luck!
33. 2007-05-13 19:17  
Jon comes across as someone very clever with words - and I enjoy his wring- but still a bit immature emotionally. Ok, he's 'just' 22 but then there's also the personality/compatibilty issue which transcends age.I would venture that the guys need more gay interprsonal experience to move on.
34. 2007-05-13 19:56  
this is ridicilous, be
im not do commit on there

thanks anyway
35. 2007-05-13 21:13  
I am sorry that I won't be nice but I was shocked by this piece. "The boyfriend" is not even "my boyfriend", even less has he a name. Is he a human being you care for, a sex partner or just an ego-boosting thing for you? Mind you, he burst into tears so it seems that you hurt him a lot with your talk. And that he needed you. Meanwhile you could only think of the public embarrassment. And you have been "gay for 8 years and a nurse for 4 years"? What kind of joke is this? Where is your humanity in all this?

Maybe if "The boyfriend" were telling the same story, his side would be quite different. Religion is a good scapegoat. Did you show any compassion and support about his grandmother's death, who seemed to mean a lot to him? Did you pay attention to his feelings? Reading your article, it looks as if it is just a big bore to you.
36. 2007-05-13 22:03  
This is what I tell people who insist that I'll go to hell: God is compassionate and loving and kind. If your God condemns me just because I found love, then He/She is not worth my ounce of faith.

Think your boyfriend needs to clear his own doubts and insecurities. Being a closet and trying to be straight is tantamount to lying to the girl, unless he's bi, of course :P Good luck!
37. 2007-05-13 22:15  
i agree with makethebest
38. 2007-05-14 01:06  
Sometimes, when you're in the situation as to what Jonathan has been in, your mind wouldn't be given the option of enough time to think through...

It's easy to say or do what you feel would be better. But if it were to happen on the spot, how would you react?

Jonathan may have said something which could have hit a sensitive nerve there in the boyfriend, but that doesn't mean that he's without feelings nor tactfulness.

Writing well is a skill needed to be honed. But knowing the emotions, feelings and effort put in, is what the reader must realize.

I admire him for his determination to know his grandmother better, for I myself don't even bother to visit my grandmother until she passed on last October. So how is he supposed to write it out?? It's either it turns out to be self-pitiful, or plain arrogance, the way people see it.

No matter what, I'm sure Jonathan knows what he's doing and I'm sure he'll do better =)
Comment #39 was deleted by its author
40. 2007-05-14 01:14  
John, sorry to know that you just broke up with your boyfriend. Be strong & don't let it interfere with your work.

Don't worry because there are so many guys out there who are 100% sure that they're gay, 100% sure that they're looking for a long-term relationship, & 100% sure that they don't want religion to interfere with their sexuality.
41. 2007-05-14 01:40  
Well that's why it's always best to ask many questions about a person's perspective on religion and life, whenever you just got to know someone new. There are other unsurables like bis, confused cases, filial types, not to mentioned those who want babies, even though they are not sexually attracted to females.

It's not easy being gay and trying to find someone decent to settle down, makes it even more difficult.

I see. John is only 22, and this bf is only of 4 months.

I think you guys just took him too seriously. This is just one of many so-called heartbreaks and disappointments he's gonna face, until he sort out his own life, and find out just what's he really wants in life.

I am sure by now he would have bounced back and thinking of making sure of his many spa memberships.

John, that's where you belong. In spas, smoking your ciggies and just enjoying your youth while you have it. Stop thinking of Bfs or STRs. Take the time to GROW UP.
42. 2007-05-14 01:58  
jonathan, you showed great maturity to stick with your bf through thick and thin. i can obviously see that you want to save this relationship, and i'll share my thoughts if you allow me to..

i read and re-read this article, and i'm concerned..
you sound powerless and on the verge of giving up and you're resigned on the thought of losing him to his belief. if there is one thing one shouldn't do in times of trial, is focusing your mind on the negatives.

you attract your dominant thoughts. thoughts manifests actions, conscious or subconscious. even if you don't say it, the vibe is there, both of you could feel it, and it hardly feels good doesn't it? it's painful isn't it..

hey... if you think i was talking about 'positive thinking', i'm not. it's more than that. "missing cats", "grandma admitted" and other events, just became a 'social proof' especially for your bf, validating that him being gay, is bad. i don't blame him. hey, let's face it, even you thought to a certain extent that these events might have stemmed from your relationship with him. all these events reinforces his believe... there are only 2 main driving motivation to act, avoiding pain and seeking pleasure.. avoiding pain generally wins over pleasure, but i know one feeling that wins over pain, it's love. isn't it true that sacrifice means pain, but we so often see it when someone is in love?

hey. love is not only a noun, it's also and verb. when you love someone, you do things for them. you create an environment when you can love and be loved. he is in a very difficult situation, he needs your love more than ever, he needs someone who'll understand him and who best to do that other than you?




43. 2007-05-14 07:33  
being single is better than being in a bad relationship
44. 2007-05-14 10:20  
Jonathan,

Islam u said. I dated quite a handful Malays in my life and I hate to said that religion is really an issue to them. A big deal. I assume ur bf is about 20 something and this is really bad as normally we r not that strong emotionally during these ages.

I must said if your bf is under pressure from family and his religion belief of going the "straight way" it could be bad. Usually, it will become a brokeback mountain drama as they will marry and later in mid 30s, coming out to become gay again with wife and children at home.

However, the only advise I can give u is that if u still love him, u need to strong and still be at his side. It really depends whether his emotion can be settle down and he ok again and this demand a lot of patience, caring from your side.

If he still become very distant, then only thing I can say is that you guys have the fate to meet each other but dun have the destiny to be together. :)

45. 2007-05-14 13:40  
There is only clear way to manage this situation: logically and calmly.

Fiind out what are his issues, his concerns about Islamic teaching, and look into these to help him decide if they are fair or not.

Judging him and trying to convince him his beliefs aren't necessary and that he should forsake Islam is only counterproductive.

Everyone must believe what they feel is important for them, and you cannot stand in the way of his spiritual quest. Just help him through this, as you have helped him through all of his other difficulties.

Be loyal, be true, be patient and be understanding. He will see that you wish the best for him and may well love you all the more for it. This is one more trial by fire, I wish you luck and thick skin.
46. 2007-05-14 13:54  
i'm really impressed..a lot of mature, well-thought out, experiences and advice below. Guys and gals have come up with much to mull over. I'm sure Johnathon and his b/f will be just fine. These comments were really fun, and edifying to read...I'm planning to read them again and again...
47. 2007-05-14 14:34  
Typical human response to avoid confronting unpleasant things, and the religion cunningly position itself to be the kind listening saviour and before you know it, they claim another weak-willed gay as one of their own. Maybe Fridae and other gay groups can set up help lines to enlighten them and show that fellow gays can care.
48. 2007-05-14 16:10  
I believe that if we want to be a good BF to our other half, we should be supportive and help our partner to come to terms with his struggles. However, in the end, he has to make his own decision about his sexuality vis-a-vis his religion - none of us can make that decision for another.

The debate and interpretations on homosexuality and religion has been going on for thousands of years and will probably never end. Scholars & religious leaders have different views. I have struggled with accepting my sexuality until the ripe old age of 28 when I finally decided that I have to be authentic to myself rather than pretend to be straight and bring disaster to my personal love relationships. It is terrible to live a lie for the rest of our lives pretending to be who we are not.

I did not choose to be gay. I was born a gay man and Thank God, I am a happier man for accepting myself & just being myself, lliving authentically than to live a lie to satisfy other people's or society's expectations.

The true goodness of a person is not defined by his sexuality. It is defined by his actions and principles. My gay friends are some of the most filial sons & daughters I have ever seen - far surpassing some straight people who abandon their aged parents & mistreat their wives & children!

It is a terrible thing to live a life of constant fear or pretence. You cannot change a leopard of its spots. Better to accept the spots and live a good, productive life than an unfulfilled, miserable life pretending to be something/someone else!
49. 2007-05-14 17:50  
This misunderstanding is caused by a basic confusion about religion and Faith.

Religion is a man made moral code created by (wise) men to enable humans to live in peace with each other. This man made code also dictates a form, which it believes to be effective, in which to demonstrate our Faith.

Faith is a personal belief in the idea that the world and everything in it was created by an unknown force called 'God' or Buddha or whatever and that our existence and, maybe, our continued existence after death is part of that purpose. We stand in awe of this force and wish to honour it.

Review the way that the strength of faith has been used by religious leaders to manipulate humans, usually in the cause of power, then you can see more clearly that faith cannot condemn a person for being as God made him/her.

Homosexuality exists both in humans and in animals and like everything else in this world has a purpose even if at this time we cannot understand the purpose.

Ignore the hypocrisies and increase your faith that you have a divine purpose. Near death experiences consistently speak of seeing a blinding white light.
50. 2007-05-14 17:58  
I understand the dilema u guy goin thru torn between religon and love...

But ive been there too many yrs back ma so call ex now broke up with me cause his main reason he goin to turn str8 because of his mum and religon ive got nothing to say stunned overwhelmed with despair try several attempts to be together until i reach the point i respect his decision ..

till one day i caught him in irc check on his nick, left click `who is' stated come guyz come get me.. what nonsence he even ask ma fren to have sex with him didnt noe the fact that ma fren will inform me of his dirty liars

I was disgusted totally lost respect of him .
He even cooked up story i had affair with other guyz and thats the reason he left me.

Caught him several times playing irc and ask guyz to come to his place for fun ...i believe he still doin that..

He Using religon to just break up... that the most shameful disgusting act i ever seen... so if ur bf wana turn str cause in the name of religon make sure he do that cause the biggest sin is to play ard with ReLigon that no faith at all..

if he is here talking abt religon he not fit to talk abt it at all. shame on him.



51. 2007-05-14 19:53  
How true that sometimes religion is used as an escape from feelings, events and situations. The apparent "stability" of religion, especially in times of "trials and tribulations' (deaths, sexual identity crisis, loss of job, sickness, unfulfilling relationships) draw many of us at various times in our lives, to organized religion. If you read Cruise179's comments carefully below, he and others have experienced the pain and disappointment of being on the "receiving end" of such flights to religion, on ly to find out later, that his beloved b/f used religion as the logical scapegoat of the moment. I too had a similar experience when I was 24 years old. My lover of 5 years left me to become a catholic priest. One day I came home from work to be told, "I'm leaving you to become a priest". At 24, how do you argue with THAT?? Later, I found out he'd been fooling around with younger boys behind my back and got fired from his job. THAT'S the real reason he left. Now, he's a catholic priest, and I've long moved on, healed of my emotional wounds and continue to fill my life with love.
52. 2007-05-14 20:05  
I also believe that Johnathan displays his youthful immaturity very clearly, cleaverly and honestly in his column. How many of US would have the guts to put our guts on public display?? How many other editorials, magazines, newspapers, websites I wonder, would allow our precious youth the opportunity to practice and hone his trade, while getting paid? He's a young man, as is his b/f and of course they're going through the same rights of passage most of us older geezers (who've dared to love) have gone through and survived and even thrived. A BIG difference between Johnathon's situation and mine (ours...at my old age), is I didn't have an internet column from which to draw advice and support when I was in my twenties.
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56. 2007-05-14 20:14  
and my last comment (of the day): death of a loved one does NOT set one's priorities STRAIGHT...the death of a loved one tends to totally screw-up our priorities, turns them upside down then throws us into an emotional black hole with a vortex so strong we're sucked to the emotional bottom..... The guy is MOURING the loss of a precious, irreplaceable loved one and is now in the process of questioning his very reason and purpose for being alive. This process isn't a repositioning of priorities...it's called GRIEF...fundamental emotional, profound loss....GRIEF. Johnathon is a careing person. He will not allow his b/f to grieve alone.
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58. 2007-05-14 20:19  
i think it's very tough and quite impossible to find any form of reconciliation between religion and being a homosexual. believe me, i've tried that many times, and every time, i fail. terribly.

being born and bred a moslem is hard, especially for someone who's a homosexual. i was brought up with the Qur'an and the prophet's teachings as my guide and growing up was really difficult for me. often times, i'm confused and find myself questioning the reason for my being the way i am.

it's a never ending battle this trying to reconcile religion with being a homosexual. but i strongly believe that God loves me and no one can tell me otherwise.

every moslem goes through this phrase at one point or another. fret not. if it's meant to be, it will. your boyfriend must come to terms with himself and there's nothing anyone can say or do. i think what he needs most is support from you, no matter what the decision may be. it's not easy for you, i know. but it's even harder for him.

muchlove
R
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64. 2007-05-15 05:41  
Don't enter into an ltr with a guy who's:

(1) not sure if he's gay or str*t,
(2) not sure if he wants an ltr, &
(3) not sure if he won't let his religion to convert him from gay to str*t.

In "Latter Days", at the end, 2 main charcters are able to reconcile their differences because they're sure they're gay.
65. 2007-05-15 11:24  
why not leave religion aside and focus on being a human being first?

why not leave religion aside and focus on being happy first?

why not leave religion aside and focus on enjoying the beautiful relationship already formed?

why not leave religion aside and focus on living?

66. 2007-05-15 23:51  
sound funny~~
67. 2007-05-16 09:32  
Just out of curiosity ... how your bf takes it that you, Ah Men!, so exuberantly flaunts his tenderness side over the internet read by thousands of strangers???
Another sobbing, I suppose ... Actually it feels like a stab at the back coming from a so-called bf. There are issues that you can bring up in the net that are interesting, but things like this I think is personal. Anyway, that's your business, not mine, if you are making monies out of this kind of embarassment, well, good for you, I guess dear.
But it's very sad, really to go that low.
Sigh .....
68. 2007-05-16 13:47  
I like the way he's referred to as 'the boyfriend' - I hink thats cute :)
69. 2007-05-16 13:56  
to kel00...i do too. That's a part of Johnathon's personal writing style, and it IS cute. I don't find it at all demeaning or belittling to his EX.
70. 2007-05-16 14:01  
oohh...james_chi brings up a HUGELY important point...why did the rest of us miss it?? I wonder how "the boyfriend" feels about having his personal life published and dissected here at fridae.com. Hopefully, Johnathon "cleared" these articles with him before publishing them. I mean, that would be the loving thing to do, right? Thank you james_chi for making us think again about "the boyfriend's" dirty laundry being hung out for ALL 192,187 of us to see!!
71. 2007-05-17 19:32  
no great wisdom to expound
no cute gift to give

just one point to set apart
'the self', from a miserable end

walk close beside those in need
by simple presence, shoulder, hug,

and be a friend.


p.s. And let love conquer all. Even though it might seem to fail at times.
72. 2007-05-18 11:23  
Well, I would say, you need to move on. This one is a lost cause. You can not change him, and you shouldn't. It is all up to him, if he really want your love.
If I were you, I would send him out the door, and make sure the door did not hit his butt on the way out. Bye-bye, who's next.

73. 2007-05-18 21:19  
I think it would be best for your boyfriend if you would end the relationship. I read your article and felt that the problems he was dealing with are all a big joke to you. I am sorry I did not sense you were really seeking advise on how to deal with the problem. The only feeling I got was "Queen Drama". You did not properly deal with your own faith issues so how could you possibly deal with his. Do him a favor and walk away.
74. 2007-05-20 20:35  
It's hard to decide how much of this article is factual, and how much is embellished for the sake of entertainment. Some corresposndents have rightly queried the morality of washing your bf's dirty linen in public -- so I suspect it's not the complete story. But, we have to take it at face value I suppose. So, let me be harsh and to the point as well. He's been losing interest in you, for whatever reason. You precipitated a public scene which reduced him to tears, and he -- bless his heart -- came up with the best excuse he could think of, to let you down lightly, e.g. it's not your fault, it's not his fault -- it's the conflict between his religious feelings and his sexuality. Then he got up and went home. Time you did too. And, if you are going to use this site as a public confessional for the entertainment of us all, make sure you get permission from your lovers first. It's called respect.
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78. 2007-06-21 20:51  
Faris Malik has researched the ancient word eunuch and discovered that this word originally referred to Gay Men ie: men who had no sexual attraction to woman (as well as the castrated kind).

Faris Malik quotes from The Koran and The Bible.

further info:

http://www.well.com/~aquarius/


This means that Mathew 19 verse 12 is actually Jesus' specific words to gay people.

Using Faris' work would translate the words of Jesus (who is a prophet in Islam) as follows:

For some are gay because they were born that way from their Mother's womb; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. Not everyone can accept this teaching; only those to whom it has been given.

(The one who can accept this should accept it.)

Jesus refers to 3 types of people who should not marry
1. Gay Men
2. Castrated Men
3. Celibate Men (men called by God to be celibate; not for everyone!)

See also Isaiah 56 verse 4 & 5. Many of us believe that the 'everlasting name' is Gay.

Chookas,


Jordan


79. 2007-06-21 20:53  
well.com/~aquarius/

(website for Faris' research from an Islamic and Christian Gay viewpint)

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